Those Wonderful Vintage Italians

JimmySticks

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Did someone say Italian...? :)
Nice!

Nothing says Italian like a red Vespa, except maybe a red Ferrari! :cool:

When I was stationed in Italy, there was no better sight than seeing the beautiful young ladies dressed to the nines in heels and dresses riding their Vespas! One of my fondest memories of beautiful Italy and one of those things that make it such a special country. I pray she recovers from the pandemic...:oops:
 

vintagedrummersweden

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Nice!

Nothing says Italian like a red Vespa, except maybe a red Ferrari! :cool:

When I was stationed in Italy, there was no better sight than seeing the beautiful young ladies dressed to the nines in heels and dresses riding their Vespas! One of my fondest memories of beautiful Italy and one of those things that make it such a special country. I pray she recovers from the pandemic...:oops:
A newly made espresso from my LaPavoni Europiccola and then a ride on my Vespa 50, 1975 (my main ride to work from April to October) - that's amore!
 

itsjjp

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Last year, I stumbled pretty much by accident on an old Italian cymbal branded Kashian. It was a 20" ride that I was able to negotiate
a good price on, so I took a chance and bought it.

What a pleasant surprise this cymbal was. Beautiful sweet tone, not to dark, the right amount of wash and the bell and the crash are spot on. It is different than any of the old Zildjian's I've heard, not like a K or an A really. So I went hunting for more and over the months and I completed a nice set with a perfect 16" crash, a heavy 18" crash/ride and 14" hi hats. I am on the hunt for the china, but that is a rare bird and might take a lifetime to find.

So does anyone play some of these made-by UFIP vintage cymbals with faux-Arabic names like Kashian, Stanople, Zenjian, Zanchi, or Pasha? These were all made for the big American drum companies like Slingerland, Leedy, Ludwig and Rogers. It must have been a lucrative deal for UFIP.
 

itsjjp

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Last year, I stumbled pretty much by accident on an old Italian cymbal branded Kashian. It was a 20" ride that I was able to negotiate
a good price on, so I took a chance and bought it.

What a pleasant surprise this cymbal was. Beautiful sweet tone, not to dark, the right amount of wash and the bell and the crash are spot on. It is different than any of the old Zildjian's I've heard, not like a K or an A really. So I went hunting for more and over the months and I completed a nice set with a perfect 16" crash, a heavy 18" crash/ride and 14" hi hats. I am on the hunt for the china, but that is a rare bird and might take a lifetime to find.

So does anyone play some of these made-by UFIP vintage cymbals with faux-Arabic names like Kashian, Stanople, Zenjian, Zanchi, or Pasha? These were all made for the big American drum companies like Slingerland, Leedy, Ludwig and Rogers. It must have been a lucrative deal for UFIP.
Indeed, I have a nice set of Italian made Tosco cymbals. 14in medium hats that I would stack up against any set of B20 14in hats; 18in medium crash or light ride (no inks), 20in light ride, 20in China branded Tosco by Sabian which means still Italian made, leftover inventory right after Sabian bought Tosco, regular bell China so really more like a Zildjian Swish, nice and thin; and the crown jewel, a 600g 13in B20 by Sabian inked as a crash!, also leftover Tosco inventory only these didn't have Tosco inks or stamp in the bronze so Sabian came up with the B20 by Sabian brand, never seen one before or since, sounds excellent, like a crash-splash hybrid. All sound good to very good imo. All were purchased for reasonable prices, by memory... hats $100, 18in $110, 20in ride $60!, 20in China Swish $100, 13in 'crash' $50, and those prices include shipping. Some folks ask the world for these, but my experience has shown that deals can be had. The 20in ride was on Craigslist for $40, it was in a neighboring state and I would be passing through in 2 weeks so I worked a deal to hold it for me for $60, still a steal. These are all rotocast B20 bell bronze beauties that sound really nice!
 

JimmySticks

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Indeed, I have a nice set of Italian made Tosco cymbals. 14in medium hats that I would stack up against any set of B20 14in hats; 18in medium crash or light ride (no inks), 20in light ride, 20in China branded Tosco by Sabian which means still Italian made, leftover inventory right after Sabian bought Tosco, regular bell China so really more like a Zildjian Swish, nice and thin; and the crown jewel, a 600g 13in B20 by Sabian inked as a crash!, also leftover Tosco inventory only these didn't have Tosco inks or stamp in the bronze so Sabian came up with the B20 by Sabian brand, never seen one before or since, sounds excellent, like a crash-splash hybrid. All sound good to very good imo. All were purchased for reasonable prices, by memory... hats $100, 18in $110, 20in ride $60!, 20in China Swish $100, 13in 'crash' $50, and those prices include shipping. Some folks ask the world for these, but my experience has shown that deals can be had. The 20in ride was on Craigslist for $40, it was in a neighboring state and I would be passing through in 2 weeks so I worked a deal to hold it for me for $60, still a steal. These are all rotocast B20 bell bronze beauties that sound really nice!
Very cool!

Glad to hear from another Italian cymbal lover! These can be had for pretty good prices normally, although every once in awhile you get a seller that thinks he has something really special and his prices reflect that. But yeah, I got good deals on each of mine and never spent over $100, including shipping, for any of them. I agree that roto-casting is a cool process and makes for a different sound, especially in the bell, which sound awesome.

I'm jealous that you have a Tosco china! Man, I want to find the Kashian china, but it's going to be a tough find I think, because they are seemingly rare. That would complete my set. At this point, I'm open to any Italian china though.
 

YabaMTV

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I have a UFIP splash which sounds great but not as great as what I discovered to be the best sounding splashes on the planet; Paiste Sound Formula of all three badge types (preferably the round badge variety). I spent a few years buying up as many 6”,8”, 10” and 12” Paiste Sound Formula splashes after I discovered them. With prices usually below $100 they are a steal. I can crack many and still have a full complement of 6” - 12”.

I also have two Spizzichino rides in my collection.
 

itsjjp

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Very cool!

Glad to hear from another Italian cymbal lover! These can be had for pretty good prices normally, although every once in awhile you get a seller that thinks he has something really special and his prices reflect that. But yeah, I got good deals on each of mine and never spent over $100, including shipping, for any of them. I agree that roto-casting is a cool process and makes for a different sound, especially in the bell, which sound awesome.

I'm jealous that you have a Tosco china! Man, I want to find the Kashian china, but it's going to be a tough find I think, because they are seemingly rare. That would complete my set. At this point, I'm open to any Italian china though.
 

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Fungus Amungus

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I've been playing these Italian Pies for a Number of years now, mainly because they Sonically Mix so well with all my Paiste Signature Alloy's & unlike Zildy and Sabian and all the other wanna be's, they are the one company who makes B20 as if it were an Art Form! Each and Every UFIP Pie has it's own unique Tonal Quality, they are Musical Instruments in the truest sense! Lately I've bought up a pile of Paper Thin Splashes & HiHats from the 50's & 60's...these are some of the Pure Diamonds they ever produced! The Splashes open and explode with nothing but a slight tap of my thumb pad, and the Hats (I've got 11's, 12's,13's, all are oddball sizes, like 11.375 etc.) have this low volume Buttery feel and the tone sounds like Donald Duck is Imatating a Hat sound...it's hard to describe. Very 40's Big Band, the splashes too...got one beat to Hell Splash that I'd swear on the Bible it's Krupa's Lil' beat-up splash he wouldn't go anywhere without! YES!...I Love my Italian Pies...got a 20" Flat Top Ride I call the "Manhole Cover"...it weighs almost 15lbs. & is like playing an Anvil, but that Folks is UFIP! They make Musical Instruments...they don't just stamp out the S.O.S. and call it "A Standard in the Industry"...Musicality is the only standard in their industry!
Fungus Out-
 

JimmySticks

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I've been playing these Italian Pies for a Number of years now, mainly because they Sonically Mix so well with all my Paiste Signature Alloy's & unlike Zildy and Sabian and all the other wanna be's, they are the one company who makes B20 as if it were an Art Form! Each and Every UFIP Pie has it's own unique Tonal Quality, they are Musical Instruments in the truest sense! Lately I've bought up a pile of Paper Thin Splashes & HiHats from the 50's & 60's...these are some of the Pure Diamonds they ever produced! The Splashes open and explode with nothing but a slight tap of my thumb pad, and the Hats (I've got 11's, 12's,13's, all are oddball sizes, like 11.375 etc.) have this low volume Buttery feel and the tone sounds like Donald Duck is Imatating a Hat sound...it's hard to describe. Very 40's Big Band, the splashes too...got one beat to Hell Splash that I'd swear on the Bible it's Krupa's Lil' beat-up splash he wouldn't go anywhere without! YES!...I Love my Italian Pies...got a 20" Flat Top Ride I call the "Manhole Cover"...it weighs almost 15lbs. & is like playing an Anvil, but that Folks is UFIP! They make Musical Instruments...they don't just stamp out the S.O.S. and call it "A Standard in the Industry"...Musicality is the only standard in their industry!
Fungus Out-
Very cool! Yeah, your a fan!

So these Italians from the 40s and 50s are true UFIP, not some faux Arabic name like Kashian, correct?

I have an 18" crash that ways 1854g, and yes, it's like hitting a manhole cover, but sounds great.
 

itsjjp

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I've been playing these Italian Pies for a Number of years now, mainly because they Sonically Mix so well with all my Paiste Signature Alloy's & unlike Zildy and Sabian and all the other wanna be's, they are the one company who makes B20 as if it were an Art Form! Each and Every UFIP Pie has it's own unique Tonal Quality, they are Musical Instruments in the truest sense! Lately I've bought up a pile of Paper Thin Splashes & HiHats from the 50's & 60's...these are some of the Pure Diamonds they ever produced! The Splashes open and explode with nothing but a slight tap of my thumb pad, and the Hats (I've got 11's, 12's,13's, all are oddball sizes, like 11.375 etc.) have this low volume Buttery feel and the tone sounds like Donald Duck is Imatating a Hat sound...it's hard to describe. Very 40's Big Band, the splashes too...got one beat to Hell Splash that I'd swear on the Bible it's Krupa's Lil' beat-up splash he wouldn't go anywhere without! YES!...I Love my Italian Pies...got a 20" Flat Top Ride I call the "Manhole Cover"...it weighs almost 15lbs. & is like playing an Anvil, but that Folks is UFIP! They make Musical Instruments...they don't just stamp out the S.O.S. and call it "A Standard in the Industry"...Musicality is the only standard in their industry!
Fungus Out-
Careful, you're gonna start a brand war. I've had many fine cymbals from Zildjian and Sabian, their bread and butter stuff too As and AAs among other things. I've also had duda from the Italians. I can't say they're all great. I had an 18in Kashian light ride that I didn't like nearly as well as the Tosco that replaced it. But then I've had Kashian hats that were excellent.
 

Fungus Amungus

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Very cool! Yeah, your a fan!
So these Italians from the 40s and 50s are true UFIP, not some faux Arabic name like Kashian, correct?
I have an 18" crash that ways 1854g, and yes, it's like hitting a manhole cover, but sounds great.
It really depends on the Year Jimmy, UFIP's History is more confusing then a European "Roundabout"! UFIP is comprised of several Small, Family Owned Cymbal Companies. UFIP, an acronym for Unione Fabbricanti Italiani Piatti (Italian Cymbal Manufacturers Union) and is located in Pistoia, Italy. I've made several friends over there who are now endorsed & they said getting a straight answer about a few of the names is impossible! LOL! You got lucky getting the early Kashian's...the later B8 Line Pies are Poor at best and I believe were made by Sabian! The Roto Casting, although developed much earlier in the 20th Century, wasn't adopted by UFIP until the 1970's from the Zanchi Brothers. Much of UFIP's History is like a Spaghetti Western, filmed in Mexico with the Director and Cast members being American...it's a W.T.F. Company from Hell! LOL! How ever they arrived at where they are, I'm glad they did...gotta go..."A Fist Full of Linguini & Clam Sauce" is on, it's one of my Fav's!
 

Coolvan

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My first drumset (Ludwig 5-piece, purchased in 1968, used, one year old, ) came with 13.5 inch Pasha hi-hats. I really didnt care for them, but I had spent all my money on the drums plus Avedis Zildjians 20” ping ride and 17” crash. While in univ a few years later, at UNT (back then it was known as NTSU) I traded them for a pair of 602 14“ hihats. The Pashas were a heavy bottom, and a thin top. The set actually recorded well, but I hated how they sounded to me playing the kit. Go figure...
 
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Adding some more pictures since there is not too much information out there. :)
I love old Zanchi cymbals. This is a set of Hi Hats that looks mismatched. The stamps are hardly readable but the finish and lathing doesn't look identical. The darker one on the left reminds me of an old K, while the other one is extremely light and more trashy but also good. The guy I bought them from used them for Dixieland and similar music which seems like a good choice.
pist2.jpg

The stamp is something I haven't seen elsewhere as it says "Pistoia" (the city) instead of "Italy". So I guess they are pretty old.
pist.jpg

The other Zanchi F&F I have is a bit larger than 20" and is more similar to a slightly trashy Zildjian A. A great cymbal in any case. It has the stamp reading "Italy".
zan.jpg

Then there's also this set of B20 by Sabian. The first run was presumably built by Tosco. While there is no other stamp, they look Italian to me. These are more like regular AAs. A very good allround choice if you're on a budget. A friend has an older Tosco Hi Hat which sounds fantastic. The later Tosco ride I've played wasn't my kind of thing (heavy 80s model) but it was good for what it was. Similary, I've played a very heavy Zanki Vibra Ride which was very different from the old Zanchis I know. A good cymbal, but pretty much all ping and no wash.
b20.jpg
 

D. B. Cooper

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Adding some more pictures since there is not too much information out there. :)
I love old Zanchi cymbals. This is a set of Hi Hats that looks mismatched. The stamps are hardly readable but the finish and lathing doesn't look identical. The darker one on the left reminds me of an old K, while the other one is extremely light and more trashy but also good. The guy I bought them from used them for Dixieland and similar music which seems like a good choice.
View attachment 447270
The stamp is something I haven't seen elsewhere as it says "Pistoia" (the city) instead of "Italy". So I guess they are pretty old.
View attachment 447271
The other Zanchi F&F I have is a bit larger than 20" and is more similar to a slightly trashy Zildjian A. A great cymbal in any case. It has the stamp reading "Italy".
View attachment 447272
Then there's also this set of B20 by Sabian. The first run was presumably built by Tosco. While there is no other stamp, they look Italian to me. These are more like regular AAs. A very good allround choice if you're on a budget. A friend has an older Tosco Hi Hat which sounds fantastic. The later Tosco ride I've played wasn't my kind of thing (heavy 80s model) but it was good for what it was. Similary, I've played a very heavy Zanki Vibra Ride which was very different from the old Zanchis I know. A good cymbal, but pretty much all ping and no wash.
View attachment 447273
Woah! Is your Zanchi ride hand hammered?
 

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