Thumper..of sorts

gwbasley

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I didn't want to hijack another thread where this was being discussed and this subject is very interesting to me.

When I studied with Gary Chester he used a low frequency metronome that produced a bass drum type of thump and it was far quicker to fall in sync with than a click. He ran it through a PA system which was set up around the drum set in his studio. An acoustic thump goes right to your gut where you feel it and is effective in changing your emotional state. This differs from anything that you hear through headphones.

Taking this concept a step farther, what if you could have a metronome type device that was built into the throne and produced a thump that you felt but wasn't heard. How about a "smart throne" or some kind of add-on device that could silently help drummers keep rock solid time through a little "kick in the butt".

I'm a pretty good home engineer and machinist but this ones is has stumped me...at least to do it right...so I'm throwing it out to suggestions.
 

Tornado

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I didn't want to hijack another thread where this was being discussed and this subject is very interesting to me.

When I studied with Gary Chester he used a low frequency metronome that produced a bass drum type of thump and it was far quicker to fall in sync with than a click. He ran it through a PA system which was set up around the drum set in his studio. An acoustic thump goes right to your gut where you feel it and is effective in changing your emotional state. This differs from anything that you hear through headphones.

Taking this concept a step farther, what if you could have a metronome type device that was built into the throne and produced a thump that you felt but wasn't heard. How about a "smart throne" or some kind of add-on device that could silently help drummers keep rock solid time through a little "kick in the butt".

I'm a pretty good home engineer and machinist but this ones is has stumped me...at least to do it right...so I'm throwing it out to suggestions.
You could look at doing something with a tactile transducer. I think this is great idea, btw.
 

covinasurf

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Well, a ButtKicker would be a good start, just figure what to use for a signal source.
JH
 

dcrigger

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What a fascinating idea. Maybe just taking a fairly standard Buttkicker and feeding it the click - or swap the click sound with a bass drum sample to better excite the shaker. Done in parallel, I would think you would still here the click in the phones but them feel it from the throne.
 

gwbasley

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What a fascinating idea. Maybe just taking a fairly standard Buttkicker and feeding it the click - or swap the click sound with a bass drum sample to better excite the shaker. Done in parallel, I would think you would still here the click in the phones but them feel it from the throne.
I like that idea a lot. It could have a balance control so you could send it more one way or the other.

My shortfall is in electronics...I can build all sorts of things with metal and wood but, aside from basic wiring, I don't have the expertise to bring in the electronic part.
 

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A Buttkicker setup would probably work solely as a metronome. But if you intend to use it as a bass drum silent monitor, don't bother with the Buttkicker. They have wayyy too much lag to be useful. I bought one and they have at least 100ms of lag, which is ridiculous if you're using it to monitor your bass drum.

If you're only using it to power a metronome pulse into the throne, though, then lag isn't a concern. Unless you're playing with other people who are also listening to the metronome, that is.

I bought a used Porter and Davies BC Gigster throne monitor, and never looked back. It's like night and day. The Buttkicker just vibrates your butt a little, and it's delayed. The Porter and Davies feels like it's vibrating your entire body, you can feel it in your chest.
 

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I like that idea a lot. It could have a balance control so you could send it more one way or the other.

My shortfall is in electronics...I can build all sorts of things with metal and wood but, aside from basic wiring, I don't have the expertise to bring in the electronic part.
I don't think this would require that you wire anything yourself. This would just be routing from a mixer. You'd send a click track to the output that feeds the buttkicker amp. As I understand it, the buttkicker will only respond to low frequencies, like a high pass filter on a subwoofer, so you'd need something low frequency as the click. A bass drum sample, perhaps.
 

dcrigger

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A Buttkicker setup would probably work solely as a metronome. But if you intend to use it as a bass drum silent monitor, don't bother with the Buttkicker. They have wayyy too much lag to be useful. I bought one and they have at least 100ms of lag, which is ridiculous if you're using it to monitor your bass drum.

If you're only using it to power a metronome pulse into the throne, though, then lag isn't a concern. Unless you're playing with other people who are also listening to the metronome, that is.

I bought a used Porter and Davies BC Gigster throne monitor, and never looked back. It's like night and day. The Buttkicker just vibrates your butt a little, and it's delayed. The Porter and Davies feels like it's vibrating your entire body, you can feel it in your chest.
Not saying that what you're saying isn't true - just confused... surprised... as I've used buttkickers live many times and there was never anything approaching a discernible delay - let alone 100 msec - which I would think for a bass drum return, would making playing impossible.

My experience was pedal hits bass drum and I felt it... boom, right there. Just as though I had a big beefy monitor next to me.

As for a click - for most recording purposes, playing to a delayed click would be a deal breaker - as many times the drums aren't going on first and other people will be playing to that click as well.
 

IBitePrettyHard

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Not saying that what you're saying isn't true - just confused... surprised... as I've used buttkickers live many times and there was never anything approaching a discernible delay - let alone 100 msec - which I would think for a bass drum return, would making playing impossible.

My experience was pedal hits bass drum and I felt it... boom, right there. Just as though I had a big beefy monitor next to me.

As for a click - for most recording purposes, playing to a delayed click would be a deal breaker - as many times the drums aren't going on first and other people will be playing to that click as well.
Hmm, maybe it was my specific setup? I don't have the bigger one, but the smaller Buttkicker Mini Concert, along with this amp. Did you have the full size one?
 

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I had the full size one with a Buttkicker bka amp and had no problems in delay.

It was hefty and connection wasn’t as easy with the multiple P&D sets I had.

I sold it and don’t use a thumper at all now.
 

dcrigger

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Hmm, maybe it was my specific setup? I don't have the bigger one, but the smaller Buttkicker Mini Concert, along with this amp. Did you have the full size one?
For such a delay - I would suspect more of a latency issue if folding back sound from a DAW. But regarding an amp like the one you pictured - I don't believe they are anything special. Just regular old analog power amplifiers. For a 100 msec to result would require some sort of delay circuit - digital to analog. I don't see how a power amp - even if not working correctly can create a delay like that.

But as you wrote that you switched to a different manufacturers unit then the problem wasn't there is only more confusing (as the two products are basically the same thing - analog power amps driving a tactile transducer). So sorry - don't have a clue as to how to explain it.

Own one? No - I've never had the need to own one. I've just used them on various gigs a bunch of times.
 

MusicianMagic

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When I studied with Gary Chester he used a low frequency metronome that produced a bass drum type of thump and it was far quicker to fall in sync with than a click. He ran it through a PA system which was set up around the drum set in his studio. An acoustic thump goes right to your gut where you feel it and is effective in changing your emotional state. This differs from anything that you hear through headphones.

Taking this concept a step farther, what if you could have a metronome type device that was built into the throne and produced a thump that you felt but wasn't heard. How about a "smart throne" or some kind of add-on device that could silently help drummers keep rock solid time through a little "kick in the butt".
Actually very easy.
Build a metronome using a 555 timer IC chip. Simple circuit & you should be able to find on the Internet. Metronome is one of the common uses for the chip. can use a breadboard & hand wire. You only need one small modification to output a low frequency like 40hz. The chips are literally like 50 cents each but if you buy only one chip it might cost a dollar or two with shipping.
Then add an amp & a low-frequency transducer to make a Thumper. I've built them for friends into gaming (Especially with explosions or cars crashing to feel it)
I used a cheap amp from Amazon and a Sinuslive BassPump. Dayton has a cheaper one you can get from Amazon or Parts Express but I was told the Daytons are less reliable, don't like getting kicked around. Just make sure to verify the amps output against the rating of the transducer using a Volt meter.
Mount the transducer to a drum throne and you're done. Total cost should be around $50. There is no latency because everything is analog after the Timer chip.
 

gwbasley

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I've been following up on links and suggestions and I came across this...


...has anyone used one of these? It sounds like it may be along the same path. The electronic device sounds extremely versatile except that there doesn't appear any way to adjust the frequency other than the preset defaults. I'm wondering how strong the pulse is and if it could somehow be put into a throne seat...?
 

bigbeat

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I've been following up on links and suggestions and I came across this...


...has anyone used one of these? It sounds like it may be along the same path. The electronic device sounds extremely versatile except that there doesn't appear any way to adjust the frequency other than the preset defaults. I'm wondering how strong the pulse is and if it could somehow be put into a throne seat...?
I bought one years ago, and for me it was worthless. I couldn't feel the pulse sufficiently to follow it. I was used to an auditory click, which I use now for practice.
 

bpaluzzi

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I've been following up on links and suggestions and I came across this...


...has anyone used one of these? It sounds like it may be along the same path. The electronic device sounds extremely versatile except that there doesn't appear any way to adjust the frequency other than the preset defaults. I'm wondering how strong the pulse is and if it could somehow be put into a throne seat...?
This wouldn't be nearly strong enough to work on a throne, unfortunately.
 

gwbasley

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