That was a great trade for sure! I'm so glad you're enjoying that cymbal! I'll bet it would sound good with rivets. I'm sure enjoying that 19" Avedis you traded me... it's exactly what I was needing! I'll be playing it on a gig this weekend. Then probably sending it off to MDS to get the rivets installed...
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To Rivet or Not To Rivet. That is the question. ;)
- Thread starter Rick
- Start date
Sidebar question for the experts here: Mel Lewis, Ginger Baker (among others) played a cymbal with a lot of rivets. What was the story with cymbals with mutiple rivets?
I love my Zildjian "Left Hand Ride" w/3 rivets.
I love my Zildjian "Left Hand Ride" w/3 rivets.
foxy_shazamtastic
Very well Known Member
Just a preference. Mel’s is a swish, Zildjian still makes the Swish Knocker which is based on that cymbal. 20 rivets. It drys things out.
TPC
DFO Veteran
A heavier cymbal can take all the added mass of many rivets better than a thin cymbal. For many years I played a heavy-ish 21” 60’s A with 8 big rivets and it sounded great. A dead ringer for Ginger Baker’s ride.
TheDrummerFromAmsterdam
DFO Master
I prefer the vintage sizler myself as the chain mutes a lot.
Cann_Man28
Well-Known Member
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That cymbal from the original post will sound fantastic with one rivet. If you don't like it, you can take it out.
I really like having two rivets in my crashable left-hand ride as an alternative sound with looong sustain. But I wouldn’t want rivets in all my cymbals. It’s about having options. If your other cymbals have rivets, I would leave this one alone. If not, it’s a great voice to add.
Tama CW
DFO Master
JDA recommended to me a number of times to just use some string or twine with a couple rivets poked or squeezed on to the twine. Too light to choke.
I wouldn't drill that beautiful 19" AVEDIS until I had played it for months both ways and was positive of the outcome. Those are somewhat "collectible" cymbals imo
(ie the recreation of the 50's A's) and not many of them get drilled for rivets as they sound great as is. Yours is a perfect crash/ride....does both. And if you desire to
sell it down the road I would think the drilled holes will be a negative. And shipping it both ways to get rivets? That's $30-$50 down the drain too.
If you can't make it sound wonderful to you using the twine/rivet or taped on washer method.....don't expect much difference with drilled holes. The only times I leave a cymbal riveted is if
I get them already drilled. And in most cases whether ride or crash I like them better with all the rivets removed. If you have just a typical 60's A worth about $90-$125 I'd
say go ahead and drill it. But not with one of these AVEDIS re-issues.
I wouldn't drill that beautiful 19" AVEDIS until I had played it for months both ways and was positive of the outcome. Those are somewhat "collectible" cymbals imo
(ie the recreation of the 50's A's) and not many of them get drilled for rivets as they sound great as is. Yours is a perfect crash/ride....does both. And if you desire to
sell it down the road I would think the drilled holes will be a negative. And shipping it both ways to get rivets? That's $30-$50 down the drain too.
If you can't make it sound wonderful to you using the twine/rivet or taped on washer method.....don't expect much difference with drilled holes. The only times I leave a cymbal riveted is if
I get them already drilled. And in most cases whether ride or crash I like them better with all the rivets removed. If you have just a typical 60's A worth about $90-$125 I'd
say go ahead and drill it. But not with one of these AVEDIS re-issues.
zenstat
Very well Known Member
An old Cymbalholic trick from Mario (Mers). The dental floss method. Here is the photo which I've had on my server since 18 October 2012. So it is coming up for a 10 year anniversary in a month. I've used the method myself a few times. I can't speak to whether JDA has used it or not.
Formula 602
DFO Veteran
Is that the one …that is the very last note you hear on the Blind Faith song..……Can’t find my way home?..
Formula 602
DFO Veteran
Someone told me once…that A.Zil used to rivet really bad sounding Medium cymbals….Is that true,do you think?
Tama CW
DFO Master
Nice. And that's a cymbal you don't want to put extra holes in "just for fun."
TPC
DFO Veteran
Ah - the famous F***tard Ride.
TPC
DFO Veteran
Very likely
Well in case anyone is wondering... here's what I did. I got Memphis Drum Shop to install two Zildjian rivets. I've had it back for a couple of weeks now. I like it but decided that two rivets are just a bit much for this cymbal. Maybe the Bosphorus rivets would have been better? (Anybody know if the Bosphorus rivets fit in the same size hole as Zildjian rivets?)
So I took off one of the rivets. I like it better now and think it sounds really good. Here's the original video done by the drummer I got it from (before the rivet), followed by a video I just did with the one rivet. I used a Zoom iQ7 microphone to record this, so it sounds pretty true to in person...
So I took off one of the rivets. I like it better now and think it sounds really good. Here's the original video done by the drummer I got it from (before the rivet), followed by a video I just did with the one rivet. I used a Zoom iQ7 microphone to record this, so it sounds pretty true to in person...
zenstat
Very well Known Member
Nice comparison. I'm able to swap from Zildjian rivets to Bos rivets with the hole hole size unchanged.
donbseattle
Well-Known Member
Hi guys,
If you like jazz and listen to Billy Higgins and Elvin Jones, you are likely to appreciate the sound of ride cymbals with rivets in them. I just have a couple of things to say. ONE, if you have a lousy sounding cymbal and install rivets in it, it will sound like a lousy cymbal with rivets in it.
That said, if you like rivets, why not have a knowledgeable person drill a couple holes in your cymbal. Then buy some SPLIT RIVETS. You can put in any amount you want and remove any amount you want. Because split rivets are not tattoos. They are easily removeable.
My experience with chains is that they muffle they cymbal. And if you are interested in playing some light strokes and hearing some nice sustained sizzle, it is generally NOT going to happen with chains.
IF you get a really light chain that does sizzle easier, congratulations. BUT.....in my humble UNBELIEVABLY EXPERT opinion, it will not sound as good as split rivets.
Thank you! I'll be here all week!
If you like jazz and listen to Billy Higgins and Elvin Jones, you are likely to appreciate the sound of ride cymbals with rivets in them. I just have a couple of things to say. ONE, if you have a lousy sounding cymbal and install rivets in it, it will sound like a lousy cymbal with rivets in it.
That said, if you like rivets, why not have a knowledgeable person drill a couple holes in your cymbal. Then buy some SPLIT RIVETS. You can put in any amount you want and remove any amount you want. Because split rivets are not tattoos. They are easily removeable.
My experience with chains is that they muffle they cymbal. And if you are interested in playing some light strokes and hearing some nice sustained sizzle, it is generally NOT going to happen with chains.
IF you get a really light chain that does sizzle easier, congratulations. BUT.....in my humble UNBELIEVABLY EXPERT opinion, it will not sound as good as split rivets.
Thank you! I'll be here all week!
drumsdrums67
Member
I would advise against it. If you really like the cymbal and plan on holding on to it for a good period of time I would send it to the Zildjian factory and have them install the rivets. You pay for shipping to and from but they won’t charge extra to install them. Another option would be these sizzles from Tackle Instrument Co.:
Leather cymbal sizzle chain
Leather/Felt cymbal washer with brass chain and copper rivet. Select chain length: 9” for 20”+ cymbal 10” for 22”+ cymbal 11" for 24”+ cymbal made in Minneapolis
tackleinstrument.com
They lengths that cover each size range up to 24” cymbals.
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xopherhills
Well-Known Member
I feel that rivets completely change the sound of a cymbal, so I'm glad you tested out a bunch of options before drilling. In high school my drum teacher riveted my bottom high hat because he liked the sound. I found I did not.
an old adage- if it sounds good without rivets- it'll sound good WITH rivets. Just don't drill them in the same radius or circumference. gotta be offset a little or you will induce a crack. Try a lightweight bead chain- available at craft and hardware stores - think light pull chains..see if you like it. I do ..
