Thanks for that, Emmett. Sometimes I’m trying to convince myself that gear doesn’t matter more than anyone else! It was indeed a very special cymbal played by one of the greatest drummers of all time, but any of us would probably be able to make it sounds pretty special, too.I always respect your opinions and experience, Paul.
I also have a long history, when this type of discussion arises, of trying to make a distinction between musicality and tonality. I believe that if, for example, Tony had played the entirety of his Nefertiti sessions using a 14" Z Custom bottom Hi-Hat cymbal as his ride cymbal, we would absolutely be able to feel and hear that it was Tony playing it, musically, but I don't think that even Tony could make that 14" Z. Custom sound convincingly like his Nefertiti 22" K, tonally.
Conversely, I also think that if almost any decent player walked into that RVG's studio on the day(s) the Nefertiti session was recorded (mics, eq, etc., all being exactly as they were), grabbed Tony's actual sticks, played straight 8th notes on his 22" K for a minute, we'd likely be able to tell that it was the same cymbal (or one that was uncannily similar to it), focusing on tone rather than musicality.
I'm not intending to minimize the importance of touch; it's a colossal contributing factor to musicality, and certainly influences tone, as well. I guess I just think that the particular cymbal that Tony was playing deserves a good bit of credit for sounding the way it did, tonally, when Tony played it.
I entirely agree with you that so much of what makes us focus on the elusive beauty of the tone of Tony's cymbal is the innovative musical creativity that Tony used that cymbal as a tool to articulate and convey. I'd just add that the cymbal he was playing, to its own credit (or that of the cymbalsmith who made it), shone its own glorious light on on Tony's musicality.
Thanks for the compliment! I have a few from my personal that I would choose, but they fall into two categories:Emmett and Paul, I have a question for each of you. It’s well documented that you are both in possession of some amazing cymbals. Which would you choose from your personal collection if called upon to the recreate the Tony sound to the best of your abilities? An old stamp K? A Spizz? An Agop or other modern cymbal?
Emmett and Paul, I have a question for each of you. It’s well documented that you are both in possession of some amazing cymbals. Which would you choose from your personal collection if called upon to the recreate the Tony sound to the best of your abilities? An old stamp K? A Spizz? An Agop or other modern cymbal?
There is another 22" old K that the Istanbul Mehmet TW signature cymbal is based on, which has a big chunk taken out. Tony's widow provided that one to Mehmet to copy. There are pictures of Tony using this cymbal as late as 1968. We don't know what the stamp is on that one.Taller bell, overall style/lathing, and middle placed die stamp (with small star) would all seem to suggest Intermediate Stamp ('59 to '66)......vs. an early New Stamp.
The black angular blob of toning is visible at around 7-8 o'clock in the top photo so you can gauge where the stamp sits on the bow. Not an old stamp Type 4 as folk lore has suggested.
So what's the history of these photos? I though the original Nefertiti cymbal was all cracked up. This one looks very nice and intact. ???? Paul Francis would would have been a little kid when Nefertiti was in great shape.
This looks almost identical to the spizz 22” TW cymbal I have with the flanged edge right where this one is.More lore on the Nefertiti thanks to Paul Francis. Delivered by Wallace Roney and and Vince Wilburn (Tony’s nephew) who had a photo with Paul.
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I'll leave it to others to identify the trademark stamp and the production era of the cymbal from the bell and lathing. I know what I think but the wiki research team would like to hear other opinions.