Tune-Bot Thread

Rick

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Oh one other thing... Check out this video. I don't actually take a ruler and measure, but I've started paying attention to this when I tune the snare side head...

 

lrod1707

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Yeah, like I said, it tunes mine just fine. In fact, my snare batter head is the EASIEST to tune with the Tunebot of all my drums. The reso isn't bad either. I'm almost wondering if it's possible you have some bearing edge problems with that Acrolite or possibly it's out of round (is that possible with an aluminum snare)? Have you tried more than one head? Could possibly be a bad head. Anyway, those are all my ideas on it. I hope you're able to get it figured out!
Yes it is possible. I'm hoping that's not the issue because it's brand new Lol!! Sounds great as is though so that's why tuning it with the tune bot doesn't really bother me.
 

lrod1707

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Oh one other thing... Check out this video. I don't actually take a ruler and measure, but I've started paying attention to this when I tune the snare side head...

That's great!
 

lrod1707

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Also, consider the relationship between tension and diameter and that the slightest adjustment will have a more profound impact on an 8". You are dealing with the highest tuning register and only have 4-lugs. Add the fact that the sustain at that size and pitch will be the most limited, and you have a recipe for issues trying to dial in to an exact reading. On the plus side, I would guess that there is a greater margin of error on an 8" so that even mismatched TB readings can still sound fine.
Yep you are right with all that. It's 6 lug though.
 

xsabers

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Oh one other thing... Check out this video. I don't actually take a ruler and measure, but I've started paying attention to this when I tune the snare side head...

I tend to slide my finger around the inside of the rim and I can feel if there are any inconsistencies. If so, I investigate further.
 

lrod1707

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Anybody have any advice or methods for tuning the bass drum?
I can't get it in tune. Whether I tap the edge or the middle, I get the same Hz. So it's basically giving the same fundamental & pitch numbers. Same thing happens whether I do the batter or reso. I'm muffling the other side when I do it. Is there some trick to this or do you have to "mega muffle" the other side or something?
 

kzoosteve

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You could try using a drum stick to mount the tune bot? (see video for example)

 

lrod1707

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I'll try but I don't think that's the issue. I hold it up with my hand and it picks up the sound just fine. I think others have posted the same method of holding it up. The issue is that I'm getting the same pitch numbers whether I hit the middle or the edge of the head.
 
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Rick

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I'll try but I don't think that's the issue. I hold it up with my hand and it picks up the sound just fine. I think others have posted the same method of holding it up. The issue is that I'm getting the same pitch numbers whether I hit the middle or the edge of the head.
You know I've never tried tapping in the middle to see if it's different from the lugs on the bass drum. I find it very easy to nail down the same pitch at each lug. And when I set the drum up and measure the fundamental pitch by striking it with the pedal, I definitely get a different (much lower) frequency than what I dialed in on the lugs. And I don't do anything special in terms of muffling when I tune it. I just lay it down on the carpet and tune away. I do take out the bass drum pillow that I have against my batter head when I'm tuning that one.

For what it's worth, here are my specs:

It's a 22X18 Tama Starclassic Maple with a clear Remo Powerstroke 3 batter and an ebony Remo Powerstroke 3 reso with a mic port. My lugs are at 52hz on the batter and 56hz on the reso. That results in a fundamental pitch of 1C, or ~32hz. It sounds great! I also tried that same tuning on a 20X16 Tama Superstar Classic bass drum (maple also) with the same exact heads. That didn't work. For that drum, I use 44hz on the batter and 41hz on the reso. I don't remember what the fundamental pitch ends up being but it is quite a bit higher than my 20X16 Starclassic Maple. That just ended up being the tuning that sounded best to my ear for that drum. It sounds very good but not as good as my Starclassic Maple.
 

lrod1707

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You know I've never tried tapping in the middle to see if it's different from the lugs on the bass drum. I find it very easy to nail down the same pitch at each lug. And when I set the drum up and measure the fundamental pitch by striking it with the pedal, I definitely get a different (much lower) frequency than what I dialed in on the lugs. And I don't do anything special in terms of muffling when I tune it. I just lay it down on the carpet and tune away. I do take out the bass drum pillow that I have against my batter head when I'm tuning that one.

For what it's worth, here are my specs:

It's a 22X18 Tama Starclassic Maple with a clear Remo Powerstroke 3 batter and an ebony Remo Powerstroke 3 reso with a mic port. My lugs are at 52hz on the batter and 56hz on the reso. That results in a fundamental pitch of 1C, or ~32hz. It sounds great! I also tried that same tuning on a 20X16 Tama Superstar Classic bass drum (maple also) with the same exact heads. That didn't work. For that drum, I use 44hz on the batter and 41hz on the reso. I don't remember what the fundamental pitch ends up being but it is quite a bit higher than my 20X16 Starclassic Maple. That just ended up being the tuning that sounded best to my ear for that drum. It sounds very good but not as good as my Starclassic Maple.
I tried it while vertical. I really didn't want to take everything apart. But I muffled the heck out of the opposite head. Maybe you are right that the fundamental is not much different. Maybe that's the issue. I might be expecting a big difference in numbers and it might just not happen because of the size of the drum. One other thing I didn't understand is that some people post numbers like 90+. How the heck do you get that on a bass drum? Mine at 50 is already practically at max crank.
 

xsabers

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I tried it while vertical. I really didn't want to take everything apart. But I muffled the heck out of the opposite head. Maybe you are right that the fundamental is not much different. Maybe that's the issue. I might be expecting a big difference in numbers and it might just not happen because of the size of the drum. One other thing I didn't understand is that some people post numbers like 90+. How the heck do you get that on a bass drum? Mine at 50 is already practically at max crank.
With the opposing head muffled, striking the center wont give you the fundamental. It's not surprising that if all lugs are at the same pitch, that striking the center with the opposite head muffled will give you the average reading of the lugs or close to it. Unless you are talking about the fundamental pitch, 50 on a 22" bass drum is off the charts low based on the TB guide. Low 80s would be on the high end for a 22. 80/80 gives a fundamental of about 47.
 

Rick

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With the opposing head muffled, striking the center wont give you the fundamental. It's not surprising that if all lugs are at the same pitch, that striking the center with the opposite head muffled will give you the average reading of the lugs or close to it. Unless you are talking about the fundamental pitch, 50 on a 22" bass drum is off the charts low based on the TB guide. Low 80s would be on the high end for a 22. 80/80 gives a fundamental of about 47.
Based on my limited experience using the TB to tune bass drums, I kinda think it depends on the characteristics of the particular drum and the heads one is using. Like I said, 52/56 gives me a fundamental of about 32. For my Tama Starclassic Maple 22X18, that gives me a nice amount of punch, articulation, and enough tone to get by with jazz. It's a very low tuning for jazz, but it works... and it works great for everything else. When I tried that same tuning on my 20X16 Superstar Classic bass drum, it didn't sound good at all. I had to play around with it to find a tuning that sounded good. And that tuning ended up being quite different at 44/41, yielding a higher fundamental pitch than on my 22X18.

Once I had it all tuned up by ear, I saved the lug frequencies that gave me the sound I want. So I guess maybe the moral to the story is, at least with a bass drum, tuning by ear to get the sound you want is the first thing to do. Then you can use the Tunebot to make sure all the lug pitches are the same. At least that's what worked for me...
 

lrod1707

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With the opposing head muffled, striking the center wont give you the fundamental. It's not surprising that if all lugs are at the same pitch, that striking the center with the opposite head muffled will give you the average reading of the lugs or close to it. Unless you are talking about the fundamental pitch, 50 on a 22" bass drum is off the charts low based on the TB guide. Low 80s would be on the high end for a 22. 80/80 gives a fundamental of about 47.
Maybe I worded it wrong. If I don't muffle the opposite head I get the same reading on the lugs and on the center. If I muffle the heads, same thing! I'm getting the same readings all over the head whether muffled or not. And it maxes at like 50. Problem is I don't know what that 50 is because I can't differentiate whether it's fundamental or lug readings. I think I'm gonna have to take it down and lay it flat or maybe cut out a thick piece of foam to really muffle the heck out of it. I have a feeling that it's not being muffled enough.
 

lrod1707

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Based on my limited experience using the TB to tune bass drums, I kinda think it depends on the characteristics of the particular drum and the heads one is using. Like I said, 52/56 gives me a fundamental of about 32. For my Tama Starclassic Maple 22X18, that gives me a nice amount of punch, articulation, and enough tone to get by with jazz. It's a very low tuning for jazz, but it works... and it works great for everything else. When I tried that same tuning on my 20X16 Superstar Classic bass drum, it didn't sound good at all. I had to play around with it to find a tuning that sounded good. And that tuning ended up being quite different at 44/41, yielding a higher fundamental pitch than on my 22X18.

Once I had it all tuned up by ear, I saved the lug frequencies that gave me the sound I want. So I guess maybe the moral to the story is, at least with a bass drum, tuning by ear to get the sound you want is the first thing to do. Then you can use the Tunebot to make sure all the lug pitches are the same. At least that's what worked for me...
I think that's a good idea. I can hear what sound I really want anyways. The range of pitch isn't really that much anyways on such a big drum.
 

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HI everyone I'm back; sorry about that!

Well if you've been keeping up with this thread you know I've been experimenting with my turnings. First I've learned, don't change turnings just prior/at gigs, returning to a standard tuning works fine. It takes time for the heads to stretch to a evenness from lug to lug for a good quality tone. Another important thing is tuning down, (depends on newness) heads do not like to shrink to an evenness very fast, it could take a couple of days to get a good even reading at each lug on the Tune Bot and/or you may need to start over from finger tight a couple of times.

All my test have been with turnings for max resonance, (top and Bottom same) from -1 and 0 to as much as +2 Pitch Adjust. In my situation with three toms, 10, 12 and 16, -1 and 0 are too low unmic'd with a +1 being more ideal to my liking and projection out front. There's still something missing in my mind. I went to an Opry at the beginning of the month; a friend drummer was playing and the 12" and 14"? sounded amazing especially the 12". I asked him about the 12" tom; his tuning is C 3rd Octive; at the lug, Top 232 Hz and bottom 219 Hz. So Now I'm messing with a new style of tuning. With my three toms the C 3rd would be my 10" tom with that tuning. But that puts me back down in the lower pitch range of 0. Tried that at a gig and it's a little too low so at the next gig I moved up a 1/2 step, pitch range + 1. At my last gig they sounded amazing to my ears until cold damp weather rolled in to an open building. LOL

Tonight I'm sticking with it, see below:

Resonance back one notch from max; Pitch Adjust +1; Top head Higher:
10" C# 3rd, Top Lug 245 Hz, Bottom Lug 232 Hz
12" G# 2nd, Top Lug 184 Hz, Bottom Lug 173 Hz
16" D# 2nd, Top Lug 138 Hz, Bottom Lug 130 Hz

Hope this works, again with changing to this style of tuning and my drums are 6 months old, the reso heads are being a little ornery with the shrinking process. LOL

sherm

BTW: I've also noticed I'm NOT needing to use MoonJel on my toms.
 
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CherryClassic

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OK; so I think I'm a happy camper now. Last night's gig went very well with my toms. Nice tones with a good decay of evenness sounding and no need for muffling.

NOW! I'll be looking to the Bass drum. I've been reading your bass drum post above; interesting.

Eventually I'm thinking of cutting a 4" Mic Port, so maybe I should do that first.

Heads installed from factory; PS3 Clear Ambassador Batter and PS3 Smooth White Ambassador RESO.

As per tune-bot suggestions for a 20" bass, I'll try the F# 1st Octave, at the Lugs, Batter 74 Hz and Reso 85 Hz.

sherm
 

Rick

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OK; so I think I'm a happy camper now. Last night's gig went very well with my toms. Nice tones with a good decay of evenness sounding and no need for muffling.

NOW! I'll be looking to the Bass drum. I've been reading your bass drum post above; interesting.

Eventually I'm thinking of cutting a 4" Mic Port, so maybe I should do that first.

Heads installed from factory; PS3 Clear Ambassador Batter and PS3 Smooth White Ambassador RESO.

As per tune-bot suggestions for a 20" bass, I'll try the F# 1st Octave, at the Lugs, Batter 74 Hz and Reso 85 Hz.

sherm
I don't know if this will help or not, but I'll share my experience with the Tunebot and bass drums. It seems to me that different sizes, bearing edges, wood, manufacturer, etc. make it impractical to go with any kind of "standard" tuning. Nothing wrong with starting it out with what Tunebot suggests, but I'd be surprised if you end up there. For example, here's the odyssey I underwent finding my perfect sound using the Tunebot with two different bass drums:

1st bass drum is a Tama Starclassic Maple 22X18. I started off with the lower of the two Tunebot recommendations for a 22" - 1D#. That didn't sound good at all. So I went the other extreme with Bob Gatzen's "just above wrinkle" tuning. That sounded better... and I stayed with it for awhile. But eventually I decided that was a little too dead sounding. I wanted a little tone for the jazz tunes but still wanted good punch and articulation for everything else. What I ended up with was something between the two extremes. A 1C fundamental pitch with lug pitches of 52hz batter (Remo clear PS3) and 56hz reso (Remo ebony PS3 with mic port). To my ear, that sounds great and it works really well for everything I play... jazz, blues, classic soul, funk, classic rock, even some reggae.

2nd bass drum is a Tama Superstar Classic 20X16. Same heads as the Starclassic Maple, and it's also maple with the same bearing edges. I figured the tuning I had on the Starclassic Maple was a good starting point. Nope... it sounded terrible. Papery and just plain old dead. Took me awhile to figure it out, but I ended up with a 1C# fundamental pitch with lug pitches of 44hz batter and 41hz reso. Nothing at all like what it took to get my Starclassic Maple bass drum sounding good. And those lower lug pitches seem counterintuitive producing a higher fundamental pitch.

So moral to the story is I think you'll end up having to just play around with it and figure out what sounds best, using the Tunebot mainly just to get the lug pitches matched. Once you have it sounding the way you want, then you can record the lug pitches with the Tunebot and you'll be able to reproduce that sound anytime. To me, that's the real beauty of the Tunebot. But like I said, I don't think it'll hurt to start out with the Tunebot recommendation. You never know... that might be perfect for your drum!
 

CherryClassic

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I don't know if this will help or not, but I'll share my experience with the Tunebot and bass drums. It seems to me that different sizes, bearing edges, wood, manufacturer, etc. make it impractical to go with any kind of "standard" tuning. Nothing wrong with starting it out with what Tunebot suggests, but I'd be surprised if you end up there. For example, here's the odyssey I underwent finding my perfect sound using the Tunebot with two different bass drums:

1st bass drum is a Tama Starclassic Maple 22X18. I started off with the lower of the two Tunebot recommendations for a 22" - 1D#. That didn't sound good at all. So I went the other extreme with Bob Gatzen's "just above wrinkle" tuning. That sounded better... and I stayed with it for awhile. But eventually I decided that was a little too dead sounding. I wanted a little tone for the jazz tunes but still wanted good punch and articulation for everything else. What I ended up with was something between the two extremes. A 1C fundamental pitch with lug pitches of 52hz batter (Remo clear PS3) and 56hz reso (Remo ebony PS3 with mic port). To my ear, that sounds great and it works really well for everything I play... jazz, blues, classic soul, funk, classic rock, even some reggae.

2nd bass drum is a Tama Superstar Classic 20X16. Same heads as the Starclassic Maple, and it's also maple with the same bearing edges. I figured the tuning I had on the Starclassic Maple was a good starting point. Nope... it sounded terrible. Papery and just plain old dead. Took me awhile to figure it out, but I ended up with a 1C# fundamental pitch with lug pitches of 44hz batter and 41hz reso. Nothing at all like what it took to get my Starclassic Maple bass drum sounding good. And those lower lug pitches seem counterintuitive producing a higher fundamental pitch.

So moral to the story is I think you'll end up having to just play around with it and figure out what sounds best, using the Tunebot mainly just to get the lug pitches matched. Once you have it sounding the way you want, then you can record the lug pitches with the Tunebot and you'll be able to reproduce that sound anytime. To me, that's the real beauty of the Tunebot. But like I said, I don't think it'll hurt to start out with the Tunebot recommendation. You never know... that might be perfect for your drum!
Interesting; I was meaning to ask about that in your earlier reply. I was thinking you may have had it backwards but this time you sealed it.

Funny how tune-bot suggestions are just the opposite as the drums get smaller, the Hz are higher and so is the fundamental note. But then again it comes down to what it sounds like. But it is a little mind boggling that you went up a 1/2 step but still the Hz's are lower. Apparently it also has a lot to do with being a smaller drum.

My drum is 14x20 Ludwig CM. Wish me luck, LOL

sherm
 


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