Vintage Bonham cymbal question circa 1969

sixjune1944

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I have listened to John Bonham for going on 4 decades now--he's one of my favorite drummers. Like many of you, I love not only his technique and chops, but his drum and cymbal sounds. I apologize in advance for such a dumb novice question, but here it is: What kind of ride cymbal was he playing on the album Led Zeppelin II? In film clips from the period, he crashes on it a LOT (and you can hear it on the album too), and it sounds so good as both a ride and a crash. Is there a modern equivalent that I can buy, or do I need to go vintage? I know the experts are out there.
What model, what size, and is there a modern equivalent that you guys think sounds authentic to recreate that sound? I'm a Paiste virgin, so please be gentle...
Thanks, Charlie
 

tdcrjeff

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Well, the Paiste agreement doesn't technically prove that's what he was playing in 1969 on LZII. But by all accounts that is what he was playing - Paiste Giant Beats, a 24" ride.
 

ludtubs

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tdcrjeff said:
Well, the Paiste agreement doesn't technically prove that's what he was playing in 1969 on LZII. But by all accounts that is what he was playing - Paiste Giant Beats, a 24" ride.
True, very true.
 

AtlantaDrumGuy

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Big weight difference in the rides for GB vs 2002. I had assumed he went 2002 by the 2nd album. First record bronze sounds washy, but I'll give 2nd record a closer listen.
 

wflkurt

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Was he using Giant Beats in 1969 or still using 602's? I had longed for years for that Bonham crash ride sound and I got some giant beats from Rick P here and I love them! Granted I'm not using a 24" ride but am using the 20" multi as my ride and the 18" multi as my right side crash. The Giants might be a little light on the ride end but I just love them! I can crash and ride.... I will most likely never use any kind of a ping or heavy ride ever again! Do yourself a favor and check them out. The Paiste website has some decent sound files.
 

Carlos McSnurf

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AtlantaDrumGuy said:
Big weight difference in the rides for GB vs 2002. I had assumed he went 2002 by the 2nd album. First record bronze sounds washy, but I'll give 2nd record a closer listen.
Especially that on first record it could be Zildjian :)
Here's closest pics I found in web from olympic studios.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-x9FtdJcH_zI/UYvmgRcBDxI/AAAAAAAAFS8/dds3lu_cOsw/s1600/JimmyPageStudio1969-1.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BksWhvrCAAAhvAC.jpg:large
Hard to tell if it's 2002 or GB.
 

wflkurt

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I had an 18" 602 crash and the sonic qualities between that and what I have heard from 1969 live recordings sound fairly similar to me. just love the cymbals on the three disc set "how the west was one" that was recorded in long beach CA and los angeles CA in 1972. I was pretty sure those were Giant Beats. I thought he may have started using those around 1971 and went to 2002's by 1973. According to that cymbal list it looks like he had a good mix between Giant Beat and 2002.

I just know that if you are looking for a nice crash ride sound, the giant beats work great. I'm sure a 24" might even be really nice. A 24" cymbal is just to large for what I need. Being able to crash my ride has been a nice treat though because for some reason I was always stuck on playing a heavier ride, which leaves the ride to just be that... a ride. Now that I can crash it as well I love how I can ever so slightly lean on it a bit to get it to wash and I can also use it full on as a large crash. I don't have any idea why I waited so long to get this combination... It may not work for a lot of people but I love it.
 

organicdrummer

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I just picked up a 24" Giant Beat and it sounds pretty much like the ride on How Many More Times. It's a bit washy but has a great woody attack. I think it's quite controllable, surprisingly. It has a great deep crash and the bell is killer. You can really get a ton of tones out of it because it is so big. Riding closer to the bell really gets you more ping, like the ride tone in What Is And What Should Never Be.

Of course, all cymbals are a bit different. So try them out first!!!
 

homeby5

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I bought a 24" 2002 for this same reason and am real happy. (I think I bought it here from someone) Now, like the drums my ears are just not trained enough for all of the sudden nuances but to me it is real close....
 

bharrington

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Paiste released the 2002 line in 1971 - so it's definitely a GB or 602. I thought I heard somewhere that Houses of the Holy was the first record of Bonz playing the 2002's - the IV sessions started late 1970 but did go to March 1971.

I have the GB 24" reissue and it's a cool cymbal. I sold a 2002 24" reissue and regret it. It was a beast.
 

flamaqueII

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I was trying to figure out the crash cymbal on Baby I'm Gonna Leave You and found this thread. It looks to me like the had written sheet starts in 1970 and LZ1 was 1969, right? What is your best guess for that song? 20"/18" Giant Beat or 602?
 

bharrington

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flamaqueII said:
I was trying to figure out the crash cymbal on Baby I'm Gonna Leave You and found this thread. It looks to me like the had written sheet starts in 1970 and LZ1 was 1969, right? What is your best guess for that song? 20"/18" Giant Beat or 602?
Bringing back an old thread! I just happened to come across this - sessions for Zep I were Sept-Oct of '68. On the session, I personally think Bonham used the 22"/13"/16" Slingerland kit with a LM400 he did the first Zeppelin gigs with. As far as cymbals... I have no idea. Since he was such a fan of the GB's, it wouldn't surprise me if he had those by '68. His playing on the first record is just so fantastic - I really think it could've been anything - gear mattered none with playing like that.
 

bharrington

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bonzoleum said:
I think they're straight up A Ziljian on that first record.
I was about to say that myself. I think you might be right. I always thought they just had "that" Zildjian A vibe - a little darker, a bit trashy, not as smooth as the GBs.
 

Treviso1

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He was definitely using 2002s on The Song Remains the Same movie which was shot during the last stop of the 1973 tour at MSG (released in 1976), so that Paiste cymbal invoice that we have all looked at for years doesn't tell the entire story.
 

Treviso1

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These are all pictures from the 1973 tour and/or from the movie "The Song Remains the Same" of the same year. The movie was released in 1976, but the footage is from the famous 1973 tour that ended at MSG with a rather exhausted band.
If you look at the bow and profile of the cymbals in these pics, you see that they are 2002s. Also, note the color of the cymbals and logo...all clearly 2002s. Finally, one of these pictures shows the bottom "15" SoundEdge 2002" clearly visible.
 

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