Yes it does look like that to me as well. I that is part of the lore. I haven't had hands on one of the Mehmet clones but if it was more faithful on profile than weight it might show the downwards flange. Anybody have the set who can look for us? I may have saved multiple sets of photos for the sets for sale, but I'm not sure. I can't save everything because there is too much everything.
There is no clone of that cymbal, even the ones that claim to be clones. If a manufacturer was able to mass produce that sound, we'd all know about it, and people wouldn't be eternally hunting for it.
There are lots of individual cymbals that can get a little bit of that vibe, played the right way, under the right set of circumstances. I had a 22" Bosphorus Turk that sounded like that, from the playing position, anyway-- my 22" Cymbal & Gong Holy Grail sounds like it sometimes, other HGs sound like a different take on it. I also have a 20" Agop Turk that's sort of like it. None of them are anything like the original cymbal (or each other) in weight or design.
I have a spizz TW 22”, only owner since 2002, and there is a pronounced flanged edge about 1.5 inches from the rim. I think Roberto must have seen the original.Thanks Zen!
Wish we could see that cymbals profile. Looks like there might be a pronounced downwards flange distal to the rivet holes.
So is the Mehmet TW ride in the hat/crash/ride pack modeled on the N. ride?
I think the cymbal that Mehmet replicated wasn't this one. In the pictures of the Mehmet adds and the one with Tony's widow and all the Mehmet staff with the original Tony's set, the 22" shown is the one that's broken. Maybe the one that Tony used on "Four and More"?Since you asked nicely, the original is an Intermediate Stamp K Zildjian Istanbul, and Paul Francis weighted it and said "just under 6 lbs" and I make that 2720g and have stored it as 2700g in roundish sort of number for "just under". Here is Paul with Wallace Roney and Vince Wilburn (Tony's nephew) with the cymbal.
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The trademark image isn't that clear but if you know what to look for it is an Intermediate Stamp. The stamp is half way out from bell to bow which fits Intermediate Stamp positioning, and Nefertiti was recorded in June and July 1967 which also fits. Of course, if you know what lathing style and bell style to look for, those attributes are consistent with the Intermediate Stamp era.
The weight comes from an interview Timothy Roberts did with Paul and he mentions it at 2 hrs 18 minutes in. That is followed by a great Louie Bellson story when he was playing a ... but I won't spoil your listening.
I think the cymbal that Mehmet replicated wasn't this one. In the pictures of the Mehmet adds and the one with Tony's widow and all the Mehmet staff with the original Tony's set, the 22" shown is the one that's broken. Maybe the one that Tony used on "Four and More"?
I don't know, but for what I've read and found over the years, he didn't used only one 22" during the 60's. At least, the broken one and that Intermediate stamp.
Created as faithful replicas of the now iconic cymbals made famous by Tony Williams on the recordings of the 60s era Miles Davis Quintet.
When Miles Davis invited the 17-year-old Tony Williams to join his new Quintet, jazz drumming would never be the same. Tony set a new standard with his playing and cymbals. The Istanbul Mehmet Company was granted exclusive access to the very same cymbals, made in Istanbul in the late 50s, which were used by Tony Williams on the Miles Davis Quintet's historic recordings.
Hand-carried to Istanbul by Colleen Williams, Tony's wife, great attention to detail was paid during their creation, with every aspect of the cymbals being scrupulously measured, weighed, gauged and factored to ensure that the new, handmade cymbals be as close in sound as possible to the originals. Istanbul Mehmet drew from their rich archives the original and now antique cup dies, the actual dies used to form the bells on the originals, and used them in order to perfectly recreate the bell shapes on the tribute models.
The set consists of a 22" ride with legendary dry, clean stick articulation and orchestral, dark overtones. The 14" hi-hats produce a gorgeous "chick" sound and sublime, signature stick articulation. An 18" crash delivers warm, fast attack and features a signature crack that acts as a built-in "attenuator" to accelerate decay.
Did they have permission to use that pic? It's from a Gretsch ad.Thanks for the correction Joan. It's been ages since I reviewed this stuff. Definitely not the same cymbal as the Nefertiti in that Tony Tribute Set. Here is a picture of the Tony Tribute Set
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You can see the nibbles out of the 22", not the same cymbal. This explains why the Tony Tribute 22" is in a lower weight class that the Nefertiti Ride. Note there is a crack in the 18" which gets a mention in the sales literature below. I've looked at many photos of the tribute sets and I don't see the crack in the tribute 18" although it gets mentioned:
And here is Colleen Williams at the Mehmet factory.
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and the sales picture:
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Good question. I had this Johan Nefertiti ride (1st one in the comparison):Interesting thread!! I‘ve got a couple of questions to all of you guys who own one of those complex TW clones - do you gig with them?
If yes, how does it feel to play that cymbal with a piano? Doesn’t it interfere with the frequencies of that instrument?
I‘m just curious what your experiences are! I can only imagine it being very hard to play in an acoustic setting
Thank you for letting me know.
Honestly these two videos are like day and night to me (and I have to admit, yours is not the 'day').
Another lesson to me on being careful about videos/soundfiles of cymbals.
That's awesome Ptrick. I recently acquired a new 22" SE Fusion Ride 2644g that I am in love with. I use it with my Paiste Masters rides/crashes and it blends beautifully. It exhibits many of the TW qualities, nice tah, dragons breath, smooth crash and shoulder sticking. It knocks my Paiste Traditional Light 22" off the stand often lol! I about to add some Agop hats, and probably a couple of 20's, just can't decide on what.I helped design that model with Agop (seriously)