What am I hearing on this Jimmy Cobb beat?

Sprice

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This is from Wynton Kelly's album Someday My Prince Will Come. I love the album but on the track Gone With the Wind it sounds to me like either Cobb is pushing hard or someone is dragging. I'm still working on my ear so I could be way off. The head in, head out, and trades sound right but starting with Wynton's first solo chorus something feels off like it's very rushed. If anyone wants to check it out and give me their take I'd appreciate it.
 

JDA

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first I thought the tape machine was off; then I think it's just Wynton outpaced Jimmy. I believe it was said few of anybody could match Wynton.
ahead of/not on purpose/or in a mean way/ just natural
 

Tornado

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What a great sounding recording though! Everything is so clear.
 

JDA

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I think actually- I read it somewhere it's probably archived on the internet somewhere- from a magazine..

Jimmy says to Miles Davis " yeah I wish you could too"..
they were both standing there listening to Wynton
Miles says to Jimmy something about how Wynton could swing
 

Sprice

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What a great sounding recording though! Everything is so clear.
Yes, I was really happy to stumble on this album since I really knew of Wynton as a sideman. I couldn't find anything on the engineer or producer though. It really does sound nice.

And I'm definitely not trying to put anyone down by digging into this. If anything when things are merely awesome and not perfect it makes me appreciate how hard these musicians worked to get it right. Especially considering the working conditions and how many recordings they put out and how they might not even get the music before they were in the studio. That's why I appreciate false starts too. It's not magic just a really amazing group of hard working people who love the music.
 

toddbishop

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What's happening is, it sounds great. There's some large air between everyone's time concept, but that's normal, it's not a flaw. Sam Jones is way in back, Cobb is in front, Kelly is even more in front. Kelly is playing a lot of &s at the beginning of the solo, but they're well placed-- the &s are still behind Jones's quarter notes.
 

Cann_Man28

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Wynton was cooking and Jimmy and Sam were waiting for him when he cooled off a bit. That's actually a pretty common thing for the soloist's tempo to fluctuate. As drummers, we can decide if we follow the soloist or hang back. No doubt these cats knew what they were doing, heard it when they listened back to the take, and dug it.
 

Seb77

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I don't know what you hear, to me it sounds like the tempo is quite consistent, everybody seems to agree on it, swinging together nicely. It's a very dark bass sound, in the left channel only. Yeah, maybe a bit on the back end of the beat at times, but nothing major.

What I noticed right away when the solo chorus started is that Jimmy Cobb changed to a drier cymbal sound. He might be soing some tipping here, muting the cymbal with the stick, which is pretty hard at this tempo.
 

Scott K Fish

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This is from Wynton Kelly's album Someday My Prince Will Come. I love the album but on the track Gone With the Wind it sounds to me like either Cobb is pushing hard or someone is dragging. I'm still working on my ear so I could be way off. The head in, head out, and trades sound right but starting with Wynton's first solo chorus something feels off like it's very rushed. If anyone wants to check it out and give me their take I'd appreciate it.
As far as the trio playing together? Beautiful. I think the mix may be tricking your ears. Jimmy's a hair too upfront here. And Sam Jones is quite low in the mix. A remix with better volume on all three players would help you, I think.

Nobody's dragging. Nobody's rushing. These three are nailing it. Bullseye x 3.

Best,
skf
 

squidart

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Jimmy n Sam holding down the fort. When I'm playing it's easy to get wrapped up in what the soloist is doing (cuz you don't wanna miss anything) but I always strive to find that sweet spot of total awareness of all that's going on and holding back on the reins. These two cats have it down as a team.
 

multijd

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I think actually- I read it somewhere it's probably archived on the internet somewhere- from a magazine..

Jimmy says to Miles Davis " yeah I wish you could too"..
they were both standing there listening to Wynton
Miles says to Jimmy something about how Wynton could swing
This quote about Bill Evans putting stuff together for Kind of Blue is very telling.

JW: Last question: What’s your absolute favorite track from Kind of Blue?
JC: Freddie Freeloader, which we played with Wynton. And Bill Evans’ Blue in Green. I liked all of that stuff Bill put together for the album.
 

multijd

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There’s such a beautiful tension here. That is something to strive for! Like a taught rubber band, or waterskiing and swinging out to the side! The floating feeling of a soloist flying at the edge of the bass and drum groove; this is one of the beauties of Jazz music. The “participatory discrepancies” are what make swinging an individual and ensemble experience. It can’t be quantified or reduced too some triplet evaluation. It’s way to subtle and cooperative for that!!
 
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Scott K Fish

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This quote about Bill Evans putting stuff together for Kind of Blue is very telling.

JW: Last question: What’s your absolute favorite track from Kind of Blue?
JC: Freddie Freeloader, which we played with Wynton. And Bill Evans’ Blue in Green. I liked all of that stuff Bill put together for the album.
It's hard to pick a favorite track. Depends on my mood when listening. I own three different versions of this album. The original, where the transfer to vinyl from tape was a half-step (?) lower than the original recording. I have the first CD issue. And the Legacy Edition with outtakes. It's all such amazing music. // skf
 


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