What are 20" Istanbul K Zildjians selling for these days?

toddbishop

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That's the question-- I found a medium 20" Istanbul K for sale. It's a light medium-- maybe around 2200 grams. Two rivet holes. Is $1000 a good price for that?
 

JazzDrumGuy

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Didn't a few just sell Here? Check the for sale section.... unfortunately, the seller removed the prices but reach out to him....
 

JDA

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It's a light medium-- maybe around 2200 grams
build era (stamp) (ergo sound style) has an effect on what you can ask and or expect to achieve pricewise;
now there's some 'trickery" that goes on there with that..
because
old K-istas have sometimes differing "tastes" (and will pay accordingly) where one will, one won't, pay overboard..
and they all have their reasons (sometimes kept private or exposed)
 
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paulwells73

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That's the question-- I found a medium 20" Istanbul K for sale. It's a light medium-- maybe around 2200 grams. Two rivet holes. Is $1000 a good price for that?
Can you find out the type of stamp? Maybe have the seller take a picture and post it here. Joe, me, or a few others can identify it quickly. That weight is considered a bit on the heavier side for an Old K 20, but is particularly common weight for an Intermediate Stamp.
 

toddbishop

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Thanks guys, I'll probably go ahead and grab it. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't getting burned if I needed to resell it! Like the mediums were going for $600 or something. I'll share some pics/video in case anybody's interested.

Can you find out the type of stamp? Maybe have the seller take a picture and post it here. Joe, me, or a few others can identify it quickly. That weight is considered a bit on the heavier side for an Old K 20, but is particularly common weight for an Intermediate Stamp.
Thanks, will do! It seemed like a light medium-- maybe anywhere from 2000-2200.
 

JDA

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stamp and weight.
with old Ks that those two things (besides condition) is the sound.
very consistent; the eras
far more than say As which (believe it or not) had a larger (allowed) latitude
oKs were more strict (than random) than people imagine (believe, assume)
I've seen (and heard) "my" cymbals 10 times over (each) in auctions and postings over and over the years; I can only attribute it to: same teams same guys built the cymbals within an era; disbanded regrouped; with a different stamp; with little to no build overlap;
Quite amazing actually- for a handmade product. But.
 
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JDA

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continued...
If you think of a Rolls Royce wood dashboard (in the 50s or 60s or even 70s)
handmade hand carved from a plank hand worked by the same worker or small team of workers; they could make 1500 of them and they'd be indistinguishable one from another (only in the tiniest near imperceptible detail difference at an edge perhaps)
that's what I equate old Ks to. A small band of artisans quietly going about (not quiet in a cymbal factory) doing their daily work.
A very consistent and romantic (in the classical sense) time for instrument building.
 
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JDA

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continued... there's a downside to old Ks
1) is the obvious, the price nowadays but there is another rarely discussed and it has to do that they were never ever thought to be designed there was no conception of them as Drum Set cymbals.
I know this first hand from my own experience and from speaking to a fellow that had amassed 150-200 of them.
The modern concept of drum set cymbals never reached them. Each was a stand alone (a pair at most) orchestral cymbal.
There's where you get into trouble. Trying to compose with old Ks a modern sense of "set". It's just very different than it is with modern (post-Avedis) cymbals. Ride and hi hats yes ok. (hmm like Tony huh) There's peace. Beyond that you are in other world. (adding the left side or far right low etc)
An 18" can be as dominant as a 20" or as a 22" where and what function does the 16" have.
Within composing a "set" of oKs these are issues. No one ever (who worked there ran the place) thought they (to) be blended or tailored to set use.
Just wasn't in their (in Turkey) mindset lexicon. (no matter how Gretsch advertised them)

they're stubbornly Orchestral.
(that's all they knew) not knocking )
 
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JDA

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What resources are the rest of us missing?
buying them 10 and 20 years ago when an 18 was $200 a 20 $400 and a 22 $600...14s $100 $150
and that was the beginning of being late to the game.
glad I caught the tail end of it. but well over now. may come back.
That was at the start at the beginning of the internet when a lot 'o info was shared about old Ks. It's still the information that is- out there.
Have to go easy on the gas now if you want to do the experience.
 
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JDA

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It has not been my experience that old Ks are consistent in sound. My experience has been quite the opposite.
I could help you out and tell you why. Believe me.
Thru an era they built the same cymbal in different weights and diameters.
Remember. There were Six eras. Six different (sound) eras. And they don't all well mix. By any stretch.
So if you would want to be specific I could explain why. PM if you want.
Everyone who has owned old Ks all of ours -if they were same era- same close in weight- sounded the same.
outliers rare.
 
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TPC

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Can you find out the type of stamp? Maybe have the seller take a picture and post it here. Joe, me, or a few others can identify it quickly. That weight is considered a bit on the heavier side for an Old K 20, but is particularly common weight for an Intermediate Stamp.
Yeah - for some reason I just assumed it was an Intermediate. If Old Stamp, the expected price would be higher.
 

JDA

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I bought an 1888g New Stamp 20 for $800.
I knew that combo of weight and era was going to be trouble. From previous listening observation and comment over the years. Still the price at the time (3 years ago) was right.

So were all the observations and comments What I knew..

No lows. Come closer to the screen. No lows as in None to be found. I couldn't draw one (low) out if you handed me a $2000 bill.
Reason: Thin Blank hammered over hammered cause bowl umbrella shape negating any and every low it could have had. That's just the way it was(and they_ were built during that era.

Now take that diameter - 20" and weight- 1888g into an Intermediate a 4 or older than 4 stamp
and it would have been a different/another instrument. Entirely. For more reasons than one.
 

Tama CW

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While stamp and weight tend to drive the price.....some do sound better than others. The better sounding ones with the right combination of lows, mids, highs tend to bring the strongest prices from sellers who know what they have.
Price-wise, I would lump the intermediates and new stamps (1960 to 1977) in the same boat. For those, it comes down to how it sounds to you.

Don't forget to account for "small" flaws like edge dings, flea bites, bell hole cracks and keyholes, missing signatures, polished cymbals, etc. All of those effect the price. An exceptionally clean example with no obvious flaws, with much of the original brilliance,
and never been cleaned........... brings considerably more than well used/abused examples. Hence a price range of $800-$1300 for most of the 20" IS and NS examples. The 50's and earlier K Istanbuls bring far more than IS and NS......and
are not as uniform in price, requiring even more detailed analysis.
 
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JDA

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Each era had a style (build, sound) than ran thru out the course of the insignia.

here was the 20 NNS with no lows 1888g
even the operator (owner) appeared puzzled by it.

 


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