What are 20" Istanbul K Zildjians selling for these days?

JDA

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You know the story behind this picture don't you?

A.Zildjian..jpg


well let me tell ya.
The man with the goatee is ARAM. AramZildjian ..

His nephew Avedis was located in America. Had a Candy factory. Well Aram (in Turkey) health was failing.
He sent a letter to Avedis that it was impingemnet- incumbent on him to carry on the tradition of cymbal-making.

So Aram made the trek. Oceanliner across the ocean to Massachusetts to visit his nephew the last remaining blood link.
Aram arrives and they began. Aram among food and drink show Avedis and the small group Avedis had assembled, how to with hammer and anvil a cymbal. While they cast the alloy with heat rolled it was quite a process. Aram stayed for 3 weeks. Showing how to shape with a hammer the final product.

Alas he left; and died on the boat on it's way back to Turkey.

Avedis however back in Massachusetts looked around and thought about what he just witnessed these past three weeks.
His great Uncle was gone now, Literally.

Avedis got on the phone. Dialed the phone. Called an engineer he had known since they were schoolboys. Worked at MIT. The conversation that followed went along like.

" Frank? Frank. It's Avedis. Frank. Could you develop some machinery down here I have about 8 guys beating their brains out all day long with these silly hammers.. You can?...You can make me up some machines? Invent them if you have to. Yea. Crazy uncle is Gone. Thanks. See you in two weeks. Just bring it around back. Thanks"


and so it went.
 
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multijd

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I’ve owned a few K’s, three in total. And I’ve played more (rides mostly). One of my three was horrible and the other two were meh. Of the four rides I’ve played, only one made me smile.

edit - and adding to my limited skills I recently began employing a new drum instructor (jazz player who isn’t new to recording studios). When I first sat behind his teaching kit, I was again playing on K’s. Only one of his four impressed me. I now bring my own hats to the lessons.
The fact that you “don’t like” the sound of a K has nothing to do with whether it is a good cymbal or not. Most likely those cymbals are not favorable to you because you haven’t found the right use for them. As the story goes when K’s from turkey were shipped to stores in Europe the local Percussionists would head over to the store to try the new shipment and see if they could find a cymbal to meet their needs. Mahler cymbals are very different from Debussy or Johann Strauss. The factory wasn’t tailoring their production to these needs but rather the percussionists had to hear the sounds and decide what they thought would work. There certainly was no tailoring of the cymbal for jazz which was a small or nonexistent market. One innovation of A’s was that the company reached out to jazz drummers in America and began producing cymbals to meet their needs. So you may find a cymbal (or many) that you dislike. But chances are someone else has a use for that sound. These are “dogs” of a different “breed”. Maybe a chihuahua, or a Great Dane or a golden retriever.
 

Franklin Nigel Stein

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The fact that you “don’t like” the sound of a K has nothing to do with whether it is a good cymbal or not. Most likely those cymbals are not favorable to you because you haven’t found the right use for them. As the story goes when K’s from turkey were shipped to stores in Europe the local Percussionists would head over to the store to try the new shipment and see if they could find a cymbal to meet their needs. Mahler cymbals are very different from Debussy or Johann Strauss. The factory wasn’t tailoring their production to these needs but rather the percussionists had to hear the sounds and decide what they thought would work. There certainly was no tailoring of the cymbal for jazz which was a small or nonexistent market. One innovation of A’s was that the company reached out to jazz drummers in America and began producing cymbals to meet their needs. So you may find a cymbal (or many) that you dislike. But chances are someone else has a use for that sound. These are “dogs” of a different “breed”. Maybe a chihuahua, or a Great Dane or a golden retriever.
I get that Ks are desirable to some drummers. My argument would be that the fact that they were once widely used by drummers from a supposed “golden age” colors the intensity with which they’re sought after. Do you really think some of the above drummers actually USE all of their Ks? When I hear someone say they have 100 or whatever K rides, I’m thinking they need to see a professional in a mental health field.

I keep my cymbals down to around 15 or 20 and I get rid of what I don’t play. That would be a healthy response to preferring a cymbals sound. The reason K’s are expensive isn’t because they’re more special. It’s because their supply is limited by hoarders who are living in a fantasy land where dead drummers channel their “powers” through those cymbals.

Dang, that rant was fun!
 

BennyK

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Here's a 22 that'd been been collecting dust at Daves for many many months . Price in Canadian dollah .

 

BennyK

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You know the story behind this picture don't you?

View attachment 518073

well let me tell ya.
The man with the goatee is ARAM. AramZildjian ..

His nephew Avedis was located in America. Had a Candy factory. Well Aram (in Turkey) health was failing.
He sent a letter to Avedis that it was impingemnet- incumbent on him to carry on the tradition of cymbal-making.

So Aram made the trek. Oceanliner across the ocean to Massachusetts to visit his nephew the last remaining blood link.
Aram arrives and they began. Aram among food and drink show Avedis and the small group Avedis had assembled, how to with hammer and anvil a cymbal. While they cast the alloy with heat rolled it was quite a process. Aram stayed for 3 weeks. Showing how to shape with a hammer the final product.

Alas he left; and died on the boat on it's way back to Turkey.

Avedis however back in Massachusetts looked around and thought about what he just witnessed these past three weeks.
His great Uncle was gone now, Literally.

Avedis got on the phone. Dialed the phone. Called an engineer he had known since they were schoolboys. Worked at MIT. The conversation that followed went along like.

" Frank? Frank. It's Avedis. Frank. Could you develop some machinery down here I have about 8 guys beating their brains out all day long with these silly hammers.. You can?...You can make me up some machines? Invent them if you have to. Yea. Crazy uncle is Gone. Thanks. See you in two weeks. Just bring it around back. Thanks"


and so it went.
Doc Grumpy Bashful Sleepy Happy Sneezy Dopey
 

Cliff DeArment

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I get that Ks are desirable to some drummers. My argument would be that the fact that they were once widely used by drummers from a supposed “golden age” colors the intensity with which they’re sought after. Do you really think some of the above drummers actually USE all of their Ks? When I hear someone say they have 100 or whatever K rides, I’m thinking they need to see a professional in a mental health field.

I keep my cymbals down to around 15 or 20 and I get rid of what I don’t play. That would be a healthy response to preferring a cymbals sound. The reason K’s are expensive isn’t because they’re more special. It’s because their supply is limited by hoarders who are living in a fantasy land where dead drummers channel their “powers” through those cymbals.

Dang, that rant was fun!
"When I hear someone say they have 100 or whatever K rides...." It's called investment. How much did a Corvette cost in 1960? How many are left? How much is it worth today? A value increase. Collect them and you win in the end.
 

Cliff DeArment

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You know the story behind this picture don't you?

View attachment 518073

well let me tell ya.
The man with the goatee is ARAM. AramZildjian ..

His nephew Avedis was located in America. Had a Candy factory. Well Aram (in Turkey) health was failing.
He sent a letter to Avedis that it was impingemnet- incumbent on him to carry on the tradition of cymbal-making.

So Aram made the trek. Oceanliner across the ocean to Massachusetts to visit his nephew the last remaining blood link.
Aram arrives and they began. Aram among food and drink show Avedis and the small group Avedis had assembled, how to with hammer and anvil a cymbal. While they cast the alloy with heat rolled it was quite a process. Aram stayed for 3 weeks. Showing how to shape with a hammer the final product.

Alas he left; and died on the boat on it's way back to Turkey.

Avedis however back in Massachusetts looked around and thought about what he just witnessed these past three weeks.
His great Uncle was gone now, Literally.

Avedis got on the phone. Dialed the phone. Called an engineer he had known since they were schoolboys. Worked at MIT. The conversation that followed went along like.

" Frank? Frank. It's Avedis. Frank. Could you develop some machinery down here I have about 8 guys beating their brains out all day long with these silly hammers.. You can?...You can make me up some machines? Invent them if you have to. Yea. Crazy uncle is Gone. Thanks. See you in two weeks. Just bring it around back. Thanks"


and so it went.
"Aram stayed for 3 weeks."

So, they built a foundry, made cymbals looking to be about 14" to 20", and did it all in 3 weeks. Ummmmm.... Ok.

Zildjian also says Avedis (II) built a schooner to go to Europe. Ok... So.... Avedis suddenly knows how to build his own schooner? Come on.

Zildjian will say ANYTHING if it sounds good, and the minions with take it hook line and sinker.
 
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multijd

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I believe this is the definitive history of Zildjian. No schooner. And not three weeks. Avedis had a candy business in Massachusetts before his uncle came over to the us to implore him to take up the family business in America. Its all here.

And if there are any holes this one plugs most.
 

Cliff DeArment

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I believe this is the definitive history of Zildjian. No schooner. And not three weeks. Avedis had a candy business in Massachusetts before his uncle came over to the us to implore him to take up the family business in America. Its all here.

And if there are any holes this one plugs most.
Yeah, the schooner was always pretty funny. It's in Cymbal Makers, page 9. Sold by Zildjian via Hal Leonard.
 

Pink69

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As there’s been mention of orchestral cymbals in this topic I wanted to share these. I don’t know for sure but think they may be the early pre stamp or zero stamp as some call them. Absolutely no stamp or markings other then the ink under the bell. They are exactly 15 inches and I will guess about medium to medium heavy weight. They came with their original handles made of oak and what looks like rubberized canvas straps. One cymbal has drilled crack repairs but still does what it do. I use them as hats. The photo dated 1933, is of the band that used them and shows them on the bottom steps, the back of pic has the members name. Old cymbals and a picture of a pretty girl and I am hooked!
 

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Formula 602

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buying them 10 and 20 years ago when an 18 was $200 a 20 $400 and a 22 $600...14s $100 $150
and that was the beginning of being late to the game.
glad I caught the tail end of it. but well over now. may come back.
That was at the start at the beginning of the internet when a lot 'o info was shared about old Ks. It's still the information that is- out there.
Have to go easy on the gas now if you want to do the experience.
I used to get LOTS of people offering me 20” Turk Ks for $300-350 from my ad in MD in early 90s....Why they all came up with this price range....I don’t know.....I just said “Ill take it”!

I had one guy sell me 3 twenty inch and 2 twenty two inch ones for........$800 to my door!.....Very early 90s....Crazy!
 

Formula 602

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As there’s been mention of orchestral cymbals in this topic I wanted to share these. I don’t know for sure but think they may be the early pre stamp or zero stamp as some call them. Absolutely no stamp or markings other then the ink under the bell. They are exactly 15 inches and I will guess about medium to medium heavy weight. They came with their original handles made of oak and what looks like rubberized canvas straps. One cymbal has drilled crack repairs but still does what it do. I use them as hats. The photo dated 1933, is of the band that used them and shows them on the bottom steps, the back of pic has the members name. Old cymbals and a picture of a pretty girl and I am hooked!
These are Italian made....even though they say Constantinople on them....Lots of companies tried to “cash in” on the Turkish cymbal thing....In fact....that is a good way of telling a old cymbal that is Italian.....no engraved stamp into metal.....whatsoever......
 

Pink69

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While anything is possible, though by that logic there are no zero stamp or pre stamp Turkish cymbals ever made. That I doubt. I have compared these to very early K Constantinople cymbals in person and the lathing was extremely consistent with those. I will never know for sure but that’s okay. I like the sound and the picture of the little lady! I think in today’s society everyone wants to put everything in a neat little box or category to be able to process it logically when in fact somethings never came in a “box”. Either that or my opium is kicking in.
 

zenstat

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They are Italian and they are Ajaha. Look closely at that company name/signature under the bell. Ajaha is a Gretsch owned trademark since 1912 (Rob Cook with john Sheridan, The Gretsch Drum Book, 2013, p248). They were made under contract by various Italian manufacturers and ended up manufactured by the UFIP collective.

Some reading with pictures:


Read to the end and you wiil also see an 1883 K Zildjian Istanbul with the signature/company name K Zildjian Cie under the bell and no stamp. @Pink69 may I have permission to use you images for the wiki please? The signature on yours is longer at the beginning. Later on it tended to be shortened to X E Ajaha. I haven't added the Ersatz K page which will have full details about how to recognize the Italian made ones.


ajaha-xe-ink.jpg
 
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Pink69

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Sure thing Zenstat, I appreciate the info on them. I bought them in a thrift shop being sold as decorations. Basically at a give away price that happened to pay off as I like the way they sound. Does 1933 sound about the era of make on them? Thanks all for your help.
 


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