What is it with lads?

mcjaco

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In bands, I'm not sure it's a male/female thing. Every band I've been in, I offer suggestions, and I'm rebuffed.....until someone tries my suggestion months later, and suddenly it was a great idea. From them! Drives me nuts. Like just because I hit things, means I have no ear for music. Argh.
 

drumgrrrl

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Female drummer here! Hi, Spooky! I am at the point where I am pretty selective about who I play with. Life's too short. My favorite band to play with was all female. Now I play with a very cool guy who writes his own material and there are other women in the band.
But I do have some stories. Like the time in the 90s when a band mate wanted to meet after practice to talk. Drove to a strip club in Hollywood in the middle of the day, ordered a soda, and then called the dancer over and insulted her. I was already uncomfortable; at that point I walked out and waited for him to finish his soda. Quit the band shortly thereafter. Good luck!
 

Old PIT Guy

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“Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self esteem, first make sure you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes.” [anonymous]
The fastest way to accurately apply the label is that true aholes have no clue that everyone, at one time or another, has been an ahole. And so the true blue through and through ahole, blissfully ignorant of this, lives his life believing he's not in possession of a single ounce of ahole. Which invariably leads him to exhibit an abundance of ahole for everyone around him to step through.

It's the same basic logic behind how death is not difficult for the dead because they don't know they're dead. It's only difficult for those around the dead. Same thing with aholes.
 

Drm1979

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I would agree with pwc1141 and Nacci. Music should be fun with people that you can at least get along with for the sake of playing the music that you all share a common interest in. And if any of the guys are sexist or misogynistic towards you then most definitely pack up and find other folks to play with. I have worked with women before in my last band which was 20 years ago and I was just barely 19 years old. But all of us guys which there were 7 of us treated her as an equal and with respect. I have to say that I hate the fact that women in this day and age have to still fight to be relevant in a male dominated field. I've seen several female drummers that can outplay me in a second. Anyway that's my 2 cents. Best of luck to you with your bandmates and I hope you work things out the way you want. But dont take no crap off of anybody. Stand your ground to be heard.
 

RhythmGJ

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You are in a "normal" band. And what you are experiencing is one of the reasons band members quit, are fired, or the band breaks up.

This^^^^.

Studio (and touring) drummer Russ Kunkel used to have a saying .. “and then that went the way of all bands.” Which means they break up. Because “People Funny Boy.” (Girl). “Everybody funny; now you funny TOO!”


GJ
 

Jakehotep

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OK. A couple of things are going on here. I was once in a 5-person band in high school with 1 female (backing & occasional lead vocals, keyboard), and I can tell you definitively that in our case it was like a cross-section of a sociology experiment, not a male domination thing.
I (drummer, lead & backing vocals) and the bass player (lead & backing vocals) would clash all the time on creative stuff. Although not fantastic-looking, he is very charismatic, intelligent (valedictorian of his class), and talented (plays about six instruments, and he's used to getting his own way.
The keyboardist (his sister, also valedictorian of her class) was pretty meek and so was not looked to for leadership reasons. The two guitarists (great musicians) were pretty much there for the ride, so the BP and I made all the creative decisions and they were pretty laid back about the direction of the band.
The other thing going on is that creative people have always at least a bit of egomaniac in them. "I refuse to compromise where my creativity is concerned." The way I felt about it is that if I have to play music, I want to make music that fuels my passion, whereas the bass player always just wanted to play weird music. I wanted to reach out to a broader audience, but he just wanted to showcase his skills.
ANYWAY (that got rambling!), I think that your laid-back personality, not the fact that you're female, makes you more like a tool that they can count on (I'm assuming you can keep good time and that your chops are at least adequate for the band, or they would have tossed you), rather than a full creative partner.
That whole sociology thing I was talking about is very true. Understanding group dynamics even in a group this small is very fascinating. People will always fall into a hierarchy, based on their personality type. A factor like "this drummer is really hot" can add a different factor into the mix, but in the end it's how egocentric (or not) the individual members are.
 

RhythmGJ

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OK. A couple of things are going on here. I was once in a 5-person band in high school with 1 female (backing & occasional lead vocals, keyboard), and I can tell you definitively that in our case it was like a cross-section of a sociology experiment, not a male domination thing.
I (drummer, lead & backing vocals) and the bass player (lead & backing vocals) would clash all the time on creative stuff. Although not fantastic-looking, he is very charismatic, intelligent (valedictorian of his class), and talented (plays about six instruments, and he's used to getting his own way.
The keyboardist (his sister, also valedictorian of her class) was pretty meek and so was not looked to for leadership reasons. The two guitarists (great musicians) were pretty much there for the ride, so the BP and I made all the creative decisions and they were pretty laid back about the direction of the band.
The other thing going on is that creative people have always at least a bit of egomaniac in them. "I refuse to compromise where my creativity is concerned." The way I felt about it is that if I have to play music, I want to make music that fuels my passion, whereas the bass player always just wanted to play weird music. I wanted to reach out to a broader audience, but he just wanted to showcase his skills.
ANYWAY (that got rambling!), I think that your laid-back personality, not the fact that you're female, makes you more like a tool that they can count on (I'm assuming you can keep good time and that your chops are at least adequate for the band, or they would have tossed you), rather than a full creative partner.
That whole sociology thing I was talking about is very true. Understanding group dynamics even in a group this small is very fascinating. People will always fall into a hierarchy, based on their personality type. A factor like "this drummer is really hot" can add a different factor into the mix, but in the end it's how egocentric (or not) the individual members are.
Then sometimes the personality type that isn’t a big confrontational blowhard know-it-all eventually starts their *own* band...

Oh, did that sound auto-biographical?


GJ
 

Thud

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Mr Control Freak is probably just an egomaniac and would treat anyone like that (unless they came in from a band that was more popular and had a certain cred) and #1 Fan has probably been his friend for a while and looks to MCF as his means to make himself seem cool.
Could be sexism, but could easily be they've just got their heads too far up their own arses. Hard to breathe up there.
 

dragonfly66

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I'm a guitar player and lead singer, female and felt the same way when I was the only female in my band. There was one person who was the most disregarding and he influenced another band member. I ended up quitting that band because it wasn't fun any more and life's too short to not have fun using the talents God/universe gave you to share with the world. When I quit my band I felt free. I found other avenues to make music and am happier for it.

There is a lot of psychology around implicit bias of men and how women navigate this world because of that bias. It's a lot to deal with and we do it all the time, every day. The key is to address things when they happen.
 

gwbasley

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Karen Carpenter broke out for women. She opened the door for your gender and many followed.

You will find people of all kinds who try to control...don't let them get in your head...it is usually due to their own lack of self esteem that causes them to build a wall around themselves.

Keep your head up...you are better, and we all are musicians first and foremost!
 

Mcjnic

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An awful lot of posts here from guys discounting that it could be sexism.
Sorry ... nothing personal. This just rubbed me wrong ... as I'm sure it would for most any rational thinking individual.

Why would it be sexism? Solely based on the fact that there is a female present? Really???

Is that the first option here? Or the second? Or the third? Or the fourth?
Where does sexism fall in the list of potentials relating to this scenario? Do we have some sort of graphical analysis on the probablity of sexism in these scenarios?

Just curous ...
Why couldn't it be related to one of a million freekin reasons?
Could it be just a case of religious differences?
Or could it be the gent is a strict vegan and doesn't agree with the meat eating lot of them and acts out on that.
Or could it be the gent recently learned his mother has cancer and shares the same name as the female drummer?
Or could it be the gent is getting in over his head with drugs and is being a jerk to anyone that represents sobriety?

Do any of us have the information to effectively process this scenario with ANY kind of precision?
NOPE.

There's so much we don't know about the variables within this scenario ... to automatically relate this to a person being a sexist is just freekin stupid. Makes as much sense as saying he's a vampire and can't deal with daylight practice sessions.

Why can't it just be that the guy is a jerk and that she is a drummer ... like most of us ... and is relagated to the "drummer position" by the jerk leader?

Is that not a viable conclusion?
 

old_K_ride

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there's nothing quite like being yelled at on the band stand by the leader of a band you're subbing on for a one-off 4 hour club gig for $75.
 

MntnMan62

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I'm a male and a drummer and I have often felt the same way as well. It mostly has to do with song suggestions. I am rarely able to get people to go along with my suggestions for tunes to do. I have had success in providing input in how to go about playing the tune. Usually it has to do with an ending or a transition point that involves a drum fill or something like that. But I do know what you mean generally. I think it just comes with the territory of being a drummer.
 

hardbat

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Do any of us have the information to effectively process this scenario with ANY kind of precision?
Um, that was my point. I never said it was sexism, please re-read my post. I said that a lot of guys seem to have already determined that it ISN'T, when, by your own words, none of us have sufficient information to make any determination with any precision. The fact is, it might be, it might not be.
 

Mcjnic

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Um, that was my point. I never said it was sexism, please re-read my post. I said that a lot of guys seem to have already determined that it ISN'T, when, by your own words, none of us have sufficient information to make any determination with any precision. The fact is, it might be, it might not be.

Smart money’s on vampires.
 


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