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What is the secret sauce in a 20” Rogers bass drum?

Drdrumdude3009

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They sound like cannons. I have one. I am wanting to build a small kit with a 20” bass drum, but ONLY if the bass drum can sound like a 20” Rogers from 60s through 1971.
 

flatwins

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Are you referring to pre-Fullerton era or including early Fullerton era? Just curious since I have an early Fullerton kit with a 20. I dig it.
 

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Ransan

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While the wars were over but not forgotten, Jeremiah Gretsch envisioned the kick drum to be a canon.

He actually wanted it to be a canon, by way of 5 lb. cannonballs, to ward off opposing militant mule teams lugging in heavier arms, such as Howitzers and canons.

It would send the mules into a kicking/bucking frenzy, ultimately getting entangled in their rope steers, and wrecking about.

Also, it would scatter the cavaliers tight formations, bringing out fear and turmoil amongst the weaker and more skid-dish horses.
 
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JDA

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If you ever get close to one, check the edges for a CLUE
Check the edge front and back on yours; bear in mind the ply count of the shell, the ring, thickness of both ring and shell...
also the oft-told story "there's some birch in them-thar shells" Dump @Drdrumdude3009

which (birch) might apply only to a 3 ply w/ring shell
Discussed thoroughly here in Zee past..

 
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High on Stress

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I just did a recording session. Studio kit was Rogers with a 20. Never played it before. Like all Rogers 20 inch bass drums, it sounded huge and amazing and unlike every other 20 I have played. It makes my 20” DW sound anemic in comparison. I too would like to know the secret.
 

Ransan

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In seriousness, my Rogers Eagle Badge kit (profile pic) is a Cleveland era with a 22” kick, interior is silver.

It is very open and boomy sounding, I’m sure the 20” is more subdued and controlled, you’d have a great foundation with that size, also beaver tails are a bonus if you ask me.
 

JazzDrumGuy

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I don't know. I just had an outdoor gig tonite and used my 12/15/20 Ludwig vintage KB kit. Aquarian modern vintage over clear black dot batter. Some sort of muffling pillow. Toms sounded great, but I just could not get a good bass sound out of it. My Rogers 20" - a WHOLE different story!
I use the Rogers for holiday gigs - it's silver sparkle and very nice under the lights. The Gretsch RB 20 is close but I get a solid thud from the Rogers every time.

Although I got the Ludwig kit finally dialed in around March 2020 to be my main gigging kit, we know how that went. I did one gig last April and it was fun, but could have been the novelty and the anticipation. I was excited today and it fell flat......

I will add that my vintage KB 22 Ludwig is a beast.....


Edit: I haven't looked at my video footage yet but my wife was standing out front recording with her iphone. She showed me a little bit of the video and the bass actually sounded decent. Not bad for being unmiked outdoors. It just sounded weak from behind the kit so there is hope. But the Rogers sounds good from both sides.
 
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charlesm

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It's a perfect storm of ingredients: thin maple/birch shell, re-rings, sharp edges, interior sealer paint...

But the most important factor, and most difficult to duplicate, may be the fact that the wood used for the shells was VERY old growth at the time. Probably a couple hundred years old. So it was very dried out, very stiff and very acoustically resonant. The resins in the wood had crystallized by that time making for shells that are very sonically conductive--just as with old acoustic guitars or violins.

So you're hearing a very stiff and lively drum shell that's ringing like a bell, in a sense. Not easy to duplicate that with greener wood.
 

mebeatee

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It's a perfect storm of ingredients: thin maple/birch shell, re-rings, sharp edges, interior sealer paint...

But the most important factor, and most difficult to duplicate, may be the fact that the wood used for the shells was VERY old growth at the time. Probably a couple hundred years old. So it was very dried out, very stiff and very acoustically resonant. The resins in the wood had crystallized by that time making for shells that are very sonically conductive--just as with old acoustic guitars or violins.

So you're hearing a very stiff and lively drum shell that's ringing like a bell, in a sense. Not easy to duplicate that with greener wood.
+1
bt
 

kallen49

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It's a perfect storm of ingredients: thin maple/birch shell, re-rings, sharp edges, interior sealer paint...

But the most important factor, and most difficult to duplicate, may be the fact that the wood used for the shells was VERY old growth at the time. Probably a couple hundred years old. So it was very dried out, very stiff and very acoustically resonant. The resins in the wood had crystallized by that time making for shells that are very sonically conductive--just as with old acoustic guitars or violins.

So you're hearing a very stiff and lively drum shell that's ringing like a bell, in a sense. Not easy to duplicate that with greener wood.
no offense intended but how do you know that a Rogers bass drum built in 1971 was made from wood that was 200 years old?
(I like old drums but never owned any Rogers).
The resonant quality of dry wood you describe makes sense to me.
Would not a thin fibreglass shell resonate the same way?

I do own a 20” Ludwig Club date that sounds great, guess it’s circa 1969 from the badge, never compared it to a Rogers drum so I’m just curious.

The discussion about shell composition seems to be endless and kinda hard to prove scientifically that one wood is sonically “better” than another. I guess “the sound” is in the ear of the listener.
I believe heads & bearing edges and tuning have as much to do with sound as the shell.
 


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