What is Your Cymbal Setup?

Cliff DeArment

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Just stuff I like here.

All late 50's A's...

10" splash very thin Zilco
12" splash very thin Zilco
13" thin hats
14" thin hats
16" medium thin
18" thin
18" medium thin
20" medium (one of those holy grail things to me, sooooo awesome)

90's to 2000's...

7" splash Istanbul Mehmet
12" splash K
14" hats K
15" crash Custom Dark K
18" crash Istanbul Mehmet
18" crash medium thin A
20" ride Custom Dark K
21" ride Rock 21 A (1976)

Odd stuff...

11" heavy early Pasha
13" hats Chinese
14" hats Romen Meinl (40's)
16" crash Chinese
16" crash Stanople Paiste (sings forever)

Chinas...

12" Wuhan (new-ish)
12" VERY old Chinese (1920-ish)
15" VERY old Chinese (1920-ish)
20" Chinese (80's)
 

Elvis

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Cliff,

Don't think we've had the pleasure, so hello! Pleased to make your acquaintance.
That's quite an array of cymbals you have.
Those Zilco's you list - are those the Canadian cymbals, or the old Ludwig cymbals?



Elvis
 

fatchoppers

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cashmanbashman said:
So I finally got around to taking another photo of my kit. This was from about 12 feet up, but I still couldn't get the entire kit. At least I got most of it this time around. Also, no, I never move this kit. It's only been setup twice -- once in the midwest and now out here. The setup was at least 4 hours and that was with everything marked. Unfortunately, 30 or so cymbals and some misc. percussion pieces are still back in the midwest, so I'm missing a few gems in these photos. However, my new A Custom 18 and 19 Medium Crashes are here and in use, and some extras are against the wall and on the rack in the corner of the room. Anyway, here we are:







I have been debating whether to mix cymbals and do a kit like yours but It would take up my whole room and I love having 3 kits with different sound styles. Very nice set up you have.
NEIL ???????
 

Cliff DeArment

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Elvis said:
Cliff,

Don't think we've had the pleasure, so hello! Pleased to make your acquaintance.
That's quite an array of cymbals you have.
Those Zilco's you list - are those the Canadian cymbals, or the old Ludwig cymbals?



Elvis
Hi Elvis,
Those Zilco's are A Zildjian's from Quincy Mass., late 50's, with the sword and the Zilco trade mark. No Ludwig cymbals there. They're extra thin and gently hammered. I love em! :)
 

Elvis

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Cliff,

I'm a little confused.
I know of 3 "Zilco" cymbals...

1) Zildjian once made "factory" cymbals for a number of drum companies. Slingerland, for instance, offered "Alejian" cymbals. Ludwig's version was called "Zilco".

2) There were A.Zildjian "seconds" that came out of the Canadian Zildjian plant (now the home of Sabian). They were also called "Zilco".

3) Paiste made a budget cymbal in the 50's called "Zilko" (ok, its got a "K" instead of a "C", but you get my drift!).


...so you're telling me there's another Zilco cymbal besides what I just listed?




Elvis
 

Cliff DeArment

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As far as I know, in the 40's and mid 50's there were the Zilco Constantinople (with a stamp). "A"s also had the name called Alejian as "A" second's but no stamp. A lot of "A" seconds went out from drum shops too (north east area) with no stamps. Alejian's were from Slingerland and Leedy, but again, no Zilco stamp. In a way, the Alejian were a third tier. By the late 50's and late 60's (up to 1966 or 67) they changed the stamp with the Zilco trade mark. The Ludwigs were from Paiste. There was a short time with Ludwig/Leedy together with the war WWII, but it was really Leedy with Zilco's. In 1968 the Zilco's went to Canada (a lot of "A"s were made in Canada and sent back to the US to the last steps of hammering and lathing). The early 1970's started using the AZCO stamp with Zilco's. They had two lines of Zilco cymbals. Some Zilco's were "A" seconds and the other's were rolled with no hammering. They had a few different stamps with those. After 1981, Zilco was done. That was the start of Robert... Sabian.

Some of those thing's may not be right. I just try to learn that stuff the best I can. I might be totally wrong! But, that's what I know. :icon_smile:

(oh, and I did see a few with an Alejian stamp when I was young, but they were a bit crude and stamped by Slingerland)
 

Elvis

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Starting around the 1930's I believe, Zildjian made "house cymbals" for the various drum companies that existed at the time.
Each one had its own name, but all were made by Zildjian.
Slingerland was Alejian, Leedy was Zenjian and Ludwig was Zilco (I feel I'm leaving a few out, but those are the ones that I can recall right now).
Right after WWII there was a metal shortage and Zildjian had trouble keeping up with all the orders, so Leedy contracted an Italian maker to create a surrogate house cymbal for them, until Ziljdian could get back on top of their orders.
The Italian cymbal was called Zinjian.
Zildjian felt that name was too close to theirs and protested.
By that time, the metal shortage had ended and Zildjian was already well on its way to getting its stock back up, so Leedy complied and the order for the Italian cymbals were cancelled.

...^this^ from the pen of Bob Ziljdian.

My feeling is becoming that these are the Zilco cymbals you have.



Elvis
P.S. - The Paiste cymbal you mentioned came later, in the 1960's. Ludwig helped Paiste break into the American market by having them make their house cymbal, which Paiste called Standard. Like Ziljdian did in years before, Paiste used their "Standard" as the house cymbal for a number of drum companies. Oddly enough, during the 90's, in a show of paying it forward, Paiste (by then well established worldwide) culled the boutique American drum maker, GMS, (then in its infancy) under their wing by offering the line of drums through their dealers. Anyone who got the infamous '96 Catalogue pack also received a GMS catalogue in that pack.
These drums are different than the "Paiste" brand drums that were offered during the 1980's and the Paiste metal shelled drums that were offered in the later 90's and early 2000's.
I believe the 80's drums were off-shore generics and the Spirit of 2002 drums were made by Jeff Ocheltree.
 

Cliff DeArment

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Hi Elvis,

This should have a different topic and put this in another area. But, thank you for your info and I've learned a few things from you just now.

Robert Zildjian makes the best cymbals in the world and I love the guy. But, all people make mistakes. There is no Ludwig Zilco's from the catalogs. That was Zenjian with Ludwig and also Leedy. Zilco was from Leedy & Ludwig. Then to Leedy with Alejian. Zilco also was from WFL, but not Ludwig. Again, people make mistakes, even Bob. See ALL the catalogs and you will know. Ludwig - Zenjian --- Leedy - Zenjian --- Leedy & Ludwig - Zilco --- WFL - Zilco --- Leedy - Alejian --- Ludwig - Paiste. It's soooo complicated... My brain hurts!

Are they better than Zenjian, Alejian, Zilco, I have no idea. I do know that EVERY Zilco has some small flaw. That's the difference between Avedis Zildjian's and the others.

Those Zilco splashes I have are from 1956/57 to 1960-ish. I can tell from the bells. The bells are layered, like any A Zildjian from that short 56/57's to the early 1960 era. They're also from the thinner Zilco stamp "trade mark" era (late 1949 up to 1967-ish). The easy Zilco order is the thick stamp Zilco Constantinople, to the thin Zilco "trade mark," to the hollow block Zilco (made in Canada), and then to the Zilco AZCO Canada stamp.

I may be a bit off from one side or the other, but it's pretty close. (The "trade mark" may be from a bit earlier, hard to tell.) I'm just a dumb little Zilco nut. All I REALLY want to know is that era from 1958 to 1959 (I was born in 1960 and there are reasons why, but that's another story). That's just what I love. But, I have to know what I'm doing with all of that, from 1920 up to now. :icon_smile:

Oh... I also have to add Rogers with Zilco's from 1958 to mid 1960's.


Other info from Leedy... "Conn purchased the financially weakened Ludwig & Ludwig. Conn moved both companies to Elkhart where both lines of drums were produced in the same building. George Way and most of the rest of the Leedy executive staff moved to Elkhart and continued their product developments without major disruption. Wm. F. Ludwig had also moved to Elkhart, but found it difficult to work in such an arrangement, and quit to return to Chicago where he founded his own company, WFL, in 1937.

George Way continued to head up the growth and development of the Leedy Drum Company throughout the 1930s as a Conn division. In the aftermath of WWII, which had totally disrupted Conn's drum divisions, it was decided to combine Ludwig & Ludwig with Leedy, creating the Leedy & Ludwig drum company. This new division became operational in 1951. A cornerstone product for Leedy & Ludwig was a new series of drums with a unique tuning system, the "Knob Tension" line. The concept can be attributed to George Way, although Way was not responsible for the final engineering which proved to be lacking, and the line was a spectacular and expensive failure. Knob Tension drums were discontinued within a year. Conn decided to discontinue the unprofitable Leedy & Ludwig division four years later in 1955.

Wm. F. Ludwig II (of the WFL drum company) and Bud Slingerland (of the Slingerland drum company) teamed up to make Conn an offer. The Ludwig family got the Ludwig name back, and Slingerland purchased rights to the Leedy name."
 

Elvis

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...a little more on the Leedy / Ludwig - Zenjian thing.
I got this from Rob Scott's site...

Yes, these are Italian cymbals. The pseudo-Arabic scribbles at the top are meaningless. While there are stories about the Avedis Zildjian company producing cymbals for Leedy under the brand name “Zenjian” in the 1930s, it is known that the Zenjian stamp at left is associated with cymbals produced by UFIP, for Ludwig and other companies, between the 1940s and the 1960s.
Now I'm really confused.
According to Rob, they were always Italian cymbals.
However, it appears that while the name was used by both companies, it was possibly at different times?
Anyway, as you stated before, we're getting a little off subject here.
I'm not the greatest of historians (obviously), but if you wanna continue this on another thread or PM, I'm game.



Elvis
 

Cliff DeArment

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Hi all,

Bob Zildjian know's what he's doing. A lot of cymbal "authorities" think they are smart. They forget that every person makes flaws, just like me. That's just the world. Zenjian was there in the 30's and 40's up to the war with Zildjian. That's what Robert Zildjian said, and he has to be right at least some of the time! Then the UFIP people got the Zenjian stamps and used them. But here, Rob Scott thinks those stamps are "scribbles." That's not so easy. If you really look closely... there are always reasons why.

1... The name Zenjian has a word - Zendi. Zendi means "affluent," like being rich. Jinn (like genie), and di-an, and "djian," sound the same, Zen-jinn, or Zen-di-an, or Zen-jian. It looks like they were having fun with words.

2...Those "scribbles" may have clues. The top of the "S" (in arabic, from Scott), avediS, is there with Zenjian, like every Avedis Zildjian. That's a big thing. Not just scribbles. And there are things from turkish words and armenian words together. The words E and T are there from armenian at the outer edges. The rest I don't know. This may have a code, putting things together - arabic, turkish, and armenian (or american!). Or, we may never know anymore than that.

3... The name Alejian has a word too. Ale means wife, like a wife of dji-an, or an armenian wife.
 

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Cliff,


You should write to Rob and let him know about this.




Elvis
 

Elvis

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Sorry Cliff, I wasn't insinuating that you did. I just thought he might be interested in your insight on the Arabic language.


Elvis
 

dave.robertson

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Interesting information! Thank you for sharing.

This is what I have:

  • Bosphorus 14" Versa Hi Hats
  • Bosphorus 21" New Orleans Custom Thin Ride

  • Crescent 22" Hammertone Ride

  • Istanbul Agop 14" Traditional Regular Hi Hats
  • Istanbul Agop 20" Traditional Original Thin Ride
  • Istanbul Agop 22" Special Edition Jazz Ride

  • Sabian 14” AA Flat Hats
  • Sabian 10” HHX Splash Cymbal
  • Sabian 16” AAX Studio Crash
  • Sabian 17” AAX Studio Crash
  • Sabian 18” HHXtreme Crash
  • Sabian 18” AAX Studio Crash
  • Sabian 20” AA medium Ride
  • Sabian 20” HH Medium Ride

  • Zilco 14” Thin Hi Hats
  • Zilco 20” Thin Ride

  • Zildjian 20” K Dark Custom Ride
 

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Here is what I have now, all Sabian, except where noted.

20" HHX Evolution Ride (very crashable)
18" AAX Studio Crash
17" AAX Studio Crash
16" AA Thin Crash
16" Wuhan China
14" SR2 Hats (Medium top, Heavy bottom; they sound great outside and in big rooms, but not so much in small rooms.)

Peace and goodwill.
 

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Well, since this thread now got revived after quite a few years, I might as well contribute. My current cymbal setup is quite new anyways:

All Paiste:
22" Rude Power ride (The Reign)
20" 2002 Novo China
20" 2002 crash
19" 2002 crash
18" 2002 crash
16" 2002 power crash
14" 2002 crash
14" 2002 Sound edge hi-hats
14" PSTX Swiss thin crash
15" (red) Colorsound heavy hi-hats
12" (red) Colorsound splash
10" (red) Colorsound splash
 

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Well, since this thread now got revived after quite a few years, I might as well contribute. My current cymbal setup is quite new anyways:

All Paiste:
22" Rude Power ride (The Reign)
20" 2002 Novo China
20" 2002 crash
19" 2002 crash
18" 2002 crash
16" 2002 power crash
14" 2002 crash
14" 2002 Sound edge hi-hats
14" PSTX Swiss thin crash
15" (red) Colorsound heavy hi-hats
12" (red) Colorsound splash
10" (red) Colorsound splash
What are your top go-to cymbals?
 
Last edited:

Franklin Nigel Stein

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Though its a constantly moving target - last weekend's batch was:

14in HiHats - 1950s A. Zildjian 720g/820g
14in Crash - 1950s A. Zildjian 650g
16in Crash - Modern Istanbul Agop Xist 1000g
20in Ride - 1960s A. Zildjian 2030g

edit - always stokes my mind's fires to read what other drummers are playing
 


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