header.nohb.html

What Makes Kids Pick Up Sticks Today?

Pat A Flafla

DFO Veteran
Joined
Nov 28, 2020
Messages
2,758
Reaction score
3,252
I want to know what could motivate a kid to put down their $*#$&@$ phone.
I once found a college kid's gigantic phone way out in the desert where there's no signal and barely even faint trails (Big Bend Ranch State Park). I like to think that they put it down to take in the rugged, forbidding beauty of the place, unencumbered by their networking prosthesis, and they were so comfortable as an unmodified, natural, technology-free person that they forgot they set it down and moved on...
but it probably just fell out of their pocket.
 

Tornado

DFO Star
Joined
Sep 6, 2017
Messages
6,497
Reaction score
9,941
Location
Dallas
In my area most of the kids that enter our world enter through school band. So much so that pretty much every feeder system has a cap on how many beginning percussionists they'll accept.
Most don't enter with some sort of accomplishment goal in mind. It's an activity that apparently appeals to 5th graders on its own merits.

This was my experience. I was actually pretty naive about what drummers in rock bands even did. I was accepted into percussion since I had taken piano lessons which gave me an edge over the other kids. I had no intentions beyond what I was doing in the moment, really.
 

Pat A Flafla

DFO Veteran
Joined
Nov 28, 2020
Messages
2,758
Reaction score
3,252
This was my experience. I was actually pretty naive about what drummers in rock bands even did. I was accepted into percussion since I had taken piano lessons which gave me an edge over the other kids. I had no intentions beyond what I was doing in the moment, really.
Same here. I barely even had any awareness of what drummers were doing on the radio until I got sticks in my hands.
 

g-dude

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2022
Messages
63
Reaction score
82
Location
In the upper portion of the middle bit.
As one whose daughter dabbled in cello for a school year, I concur! (although at least the sound of dying cats is fractionally more tolerable when it's in the lower registers...)

The violin hits pitches similar to a baby crying...which is what makes it so bad when it's played incorrectly.

If my son isn't able to play percussion when he gets to middle school, I'm going to have him do the double bass. That way, I can at least lend a hand.
 

g-dude

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2022
Messages
63
Reaction score
82
Location
In the upper portion of the middle bit.
Oh , I had no idea there was a big decline in sales ….


I doubt we ever see anything like The Beatles and The ensuing burst of Guitar based rock bands ever again ..

I doubt we ever see as much “ disposable “ income to spend on instruments again either ….

Anywhere from 25% to 33% of new guitar sales are purchased to play at church - which has been a big growth area for sales.

Meanwhile there are a lot of songs I play at church (I'm on bass), that don't even have a bass guitar in them. I've started bringing my minimoog to play for those now.
 

g-dude

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2022
Messages
63
Reaction score
82
Location
In the upper portion of the middle bit.
I once found a college kid's gigantic phone way out in the desert where there's no signal and barely even faint trails (Big Bend Ranch State Park). I like to think that they put it down to take in the rugged, forbidding beauty of the place, unencumbered by their networking prosthesis, and they were so comfortable as an unmodified, natural, technology-free person that they forgot they set it down and moved on...
but it probably just fell out of their pocket.

Did it have teeth marks on it? If so, it probably fell out of their pocket whilst a bear was eating them.
 

Houndog

DFO Star
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
11,037
Reaction score
14,969
Location
Oklahoma City
Anywhere from 25% to 33% of new guitar sales are purchased to play at church - which has been a big growth area for sales.

Meanwhile there are a lot of songs I play at church (I'm on bass), that don't even have a bass guitar in them. I've started bringing my minimoog to play for those now.
Who woulda thought church gigs would be the thing ??
 

slow larry

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2021
Messages
103
Reaction score
107
Who woulda thought church gigs would be the thing ??
Anyone that lives outside a major metro in the US. I teach drum set to (mostly) kids at the local arts center/community college. Most are kids with percussion experience from the school band (I do some tutoring for marching percussion too which doubles as recruitment). I'd estimate a 3-1 ratio of kids who aspire to play in their church vs being in a band.

There's also a whole (actually multiple) Church Circuits with popular Christian bands traveling the country playing different churches, usually for brake even pay while crashing with members of the Church. They've mastered the traveling band shoe-string budget to an extent I've never seen in more secular acts.

Edit - there are some insanely talented musicians with 40+ years of experience who mostly just play at their church after they turn 50 or so. They usually had much more musical activity when they were younger and had more energy but have settled into working their non-music career and just playing every Sunday. The bassist at my sister-in-law's church is 63 and spent 30 years playing jazz bass in various bands and teaching part time but now only really plays very simple music on Sunday. Every now and then there is a flash of virtuosity that almost no one notices, often a complicated fill using only harmonics.
 
Last edited:

Houndog

DFO Star
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
11,037
Reaction score
14,969
Location
Oklahoma City
Anyone that lives outside a major metro in the US. I teach drum set to (mostly) kids at the local arts center/community college. Most are kids with percussion experience from the school band (I do some tutoring for marching percussion too which doubles upas recruitment). I'd estimate a 3-1 ratio of kids who aspire to play in their church vs being in a band.

There's also a whole (actually multiple) Church Circuits with popular Christian bands traveling the country playing different churches, usually for brake even pay while crashing with members of the Church. They've mastered the traveling band shoe-string budget to an extent I've never seen in more secular acts.
That’s odd , there’s a tremendous amount of tax free $$ there ……..
 

g-dude

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2022
Messages
63
Reaction score
82
Location
In the upper portion of the middle bit.
Who woulda thought church gigs would be the thing ??

It's a reliable way to play out consistently with people that you have something in common with - so right off the bat, that's something.

Beyond that, it's a form of worshipping just like singing as part of a congregation, except that you're serving by leading.

I've been playing at church for years. Usually was guitar until it became usually bass. The music isn't great from an artistic standpoint, but it also is pretty approachable for those who aren't super skilled. I try to bring something extra to it when I play.
 

charlie's_good_tonight

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2017
Messages
50
Reaction score
59
Location
SoCal
Anyone that lives outside a major metro in the US. I teach drum set to (mostly) kids at the local arts center/community college. Most are kids with percussion experience from the school band (I do some tutoring for marching percussion too which doubles as recruitment). I'd estimate a 3-1 ratio of kids who aspire to play in their church vs being in a band.

There's also a whole (actually multiple) Church Circuits with popular Christian bands traveling the country playing different churches, usually for brake even pay while crashing with members of the Church. They've mastered the traveling band shoe-string budget to an extent I've never seen in more secular acts.

Edit - there are some insanely talented musicians with 40+ years of experience who mostly just play at their church after they turn 50 or so. They usually had much more musical activity when they were younger and had more energy but have settled into working their non-music career and just playing every Sunday. The bassist at my sister-in-law's church is 63 and spent 30 years playing jazz bass in various bands and teaching part time but now only really plays very simple music on Sunday. Every now and then there is a flash of virtuosity that almost no one notices, often a complicated fill using only harmonics.

Interesting observation about that 3-1 ratio. I'd imagine there's a lot of satisfaction and social cred as a youngster playing in front of the congregation and moving up through its ranks. Not to mention actually getting to DIY "tour" (and maybe in more civil circumstances than the average indie band in an Econoline).
 

g-dude

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2022
Messages
63
Reaction score
82
Location
In the upper portion of the middle bit.
Interesting observation about that 3-1 ratio. I'd imagine there's a lot of satisfaction and social cred as a youngster playing in front of the congregation and moving up through its ranks. Not to mention actually getting to DIY "tour" (and maybe in more civil circumstances than the average indie band in an Econoline).

Our church let's the middle school/high school youth handle music duties around once per month. Good growth opportunity for them.
 

Houndog

DFO Star
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
11,037
Reaction score
14,969
Location
Oklahoma City
It's not tax free to them. IRS Topic 417.

The tax free provision for churches is like other non-profits. The employees pay taxes, and the organization itself doesn't.
You missed my point I think …
No big deal …
 

g-dude

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2022
Messages
63
Reaction score
82
Location
In the upper portion of the middle bit.
You missed my point I think …
No big deal …

So one thing that does happen is that a "love offering" would usually be collected at most churches. The folks who give usually have no idea as to what it really costs, and given the size of some churches, probably wouldn't be in a position to pay what it really costs to have a group come play.

Not a lot of room in most church budgets either to subsidize that sort of thing - although the larger churches with well off members might be able to do it.

We're doing a jazz quartet at my church tomorrow night to give a little music to folks while they eat their cookies and drink hot chocolate after they walk through our live nativity. We joked about putting out a tip jar, but really it was just something that I thought would be fun to do, and make it that little bit more special.

I mean, there's no way that we'd come out above minimum wage for the time involved anyways...
 

Quai34

Very well Known Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
938
Reaction score
640
If was born in 1963 and my Mom was a concert pianist, not that long because she stopped playing music when she got pregnant. But there were always a piano at home so, because she was playing the piano to me, no TV or games on PlayStation, I was always driven towards the piano. At age 6, I started to take lessons,was good at it, gifted, focused, classical at first, added Jazz at age 15, then first band at the same age in grade 10.
Mom always said "it's part of your education", she did that with my two brothers and my sister and they got nothing from it, I'm the only one who even thought about being a teacher or doing some technical plus music school with the conservatory.
But Dad was an engineer and wanted me to be one..
So, it was a waste of time and money for my siblings but mom is still really surprised that at58, playing music is still a big part of my life and who I am.
I wanted to do the same for my kids but when they were old enough to play, I was starting to be on my own and had no time (and no money for lessons too) to be with them every evening for 30 mn to one hour: Mom was always insisting in doing it with us and it was like homework but I never felt it that way, even in my teens....
At 15, I was passionate enough to practice on my own for hours...
All that to,say that if kids are nit in an environment filled with musicians at home, it's tough to find a way to be motivated, even with the system of school bands in high school and church bands like we have here but that doesn't exist at all in France.
So, nowadays, they come to music from DJing and if they understand that before pushing faders, you have to be a real musicians, even in entering drums in a drumbox, then, they might take the sticks.
But the millenniums are tough to get focused and they have so many other things to do that blur their attentions than is that I think there is way less that in my times.
They grab their phone and do music on titok instead of grabbing the sticks....
My focus will be my grand kids now, the lack of money was a pity for me because my son was really gifted and my daughter took lessons in harp and she was really good at it, I paid for her for 2 years of singing lessons. Jeremy said he wants to take again piano lessons when he will have kids, he did only 2 years of piano.
Finally, I grabbed my first stick when my best friend proposed to me to start a band in grade 10 and I was supposed to be the drummer, I took few months of lessons. But my Dad thought I would be better continuing in keys and helped me to pay for my first Hammond organ an L100 plus leslie. Then I saved for my first synths and strings machine and I was launched on my trip to get instruments!!!
Of course I was sight reading music so, it was easy for me to focus only on beat and not anymore beat plus notes..
Also, we were in an era were life and future were way betterthan what's happening nowadays with war and covid and climate change etc...
Tough to be motivated by anything for the kids... I very often think in typing on the forum that a lot of us are in their 50's minimum, right?
 

Pat A Flafla

DFO Veteran
Joined
Nov 28, 2020
Messages
2,758
Reaction score
3,252
Did it have teeth marks on it? If so, it probably fell out of their pocket whilst a bear was eating them.
I think the only death by bear in Texas was almost a hundred years ago and the dude was actively trying to capture it. You'd have to tie yourself to the ground and have an assistant cover you with steaks to even have a chance of getting eaten by a bear in Texas, and even then it'd still probably be death by ants. Maybe if someone imported a grizzly.
 

Cpb282

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 8, 2019
Messages
354
Reaction score
496
My current 17 year old started at around 8 because we had a requirement that each of our kids take some sort of music lessons from 8-18. They could pick whatever instrument that they wanted, and could switch every year to a different instrument if they’d like.

She started piano first and hated it. She decided she wanted to play drums. Then the next kid in line picked guitar. When the youngest was ready, the drummer suggested he pick bass so that they could start a band. That was 4+ years ago.

Prompted by the oldest, their goal has always been to make music, live where possible, not to be the best technical players.

I suspect they’d be far better players if they worked more on rudiment exercises, but they have other interests too, and I’m just thrilled to see them jam together weekly.
 

charlie's_good_tonight

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2017
Messages
50
Reaction score
59
Location
SoCal
My current 17 year old started at around 8 because we had a requirement that each of our kids take some sort of music lessons from 8-18. They could pick whatever instrument that they wanted, and could switch every year to a different instrument if they’d like.

She started piano first and hated it. She decided she wanted to play drums. Then the next kid in line picked guitar. When the youngest was ready, the drummer suggested he pick bass so that they could start a band. That was 4+ years ago.

Prompted by the oldest, their goal has always been to make music, live where possible, not to be the best technical players.

I suspect they’d be far better players if they worked more on rudiment exercises, but they have other interests too, and I’m just thrilled to see them jam together weekly.
That is a cool house rule and even cooler result! The family that jams together...

And cool that they're not too hung up on technique and more about expressing themselves.

My 17 y/o also did piano for several years, but always somewhat grudgingly. We had a falling out with her teacher (or more accurately, the wife had a falling out with her friend, who also happened to be daughter's piano teacher...) and daughter told us she was over it anyway and didn't want to continue. We didn't push. I don't blame the teacher, although she coulda been better. I once asked her if she'd maybe work a Beatles tune or two into the practice repertoire and she kinda blew me off.

It's too bad because daughter was good at it, learned to read a bit, and developed a natural ear. Hoping she'll find her way back to it someday.
 


Top