What ride for big band?

What ride for big band?

  • 20" Dream Bliss 2011 gm

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    30

CSR

Member since May 2000
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
6,890
Reaction score
1,638
Location
- Snow Belt, New York State, USA, Earth
Need a go-to ride for big band. Clear definition for horns and reeds to hear, enough wash to give the band a cushion to sit upon, pleasant sound for audience. Crashability not really a factor. I have all of these, but keep going back and forth. Help me! Comments & rational welcomed. Thank you!
 

Seb77

DFO Veteran
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
2,343
Reaction score
960
Location
Germany
20" Dream Bliss around 2000g could be perfect, not too heavy, and probably with a low pitch. The Bluebird might also be low-pitched enough, but could be bit too stick-heavy for my taste at that weight. I think we need sounds :)
 

tkillian

DFO Master
Joined
Mar 9, 2006
Messages
3,021
Reaction score
1,513
You can look at two of the best big band drummers in the world. John Riley and Jeff Hamilton.

Jeff uses the 22" Sabian Hammertone ride. A thinnish, crashable ride.
Same ride he uses with piano trio.

John Riley has used various 22" main ride over the years...none of them heavy or pingy...all very crashable.

Paul Wells...a member here has subbed with VV orchestra. Im guessing he uses same ride as he uses for everything? A 22" k renaissance proto maybe?

Andy Watson is also a VV sub. I think he uses a thin 1950's old A.
 

hawker

DFO Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2005
Messages
2,594
Reaction score
98
And I happen to have the 22" Hammer that Tom mentioned above. Actually I have the Bosphorus Hammer which became the "Hammertone" when Jeff went from Bos to Sabian/Crescent. I bought this from a well known member of Cymbalholic who decided he was going to concentrate on 20" cymbals. I bought it for an outdoor big band gig for which it worked admirably but that was two years ago and now it's all trio and quartet work in small clubs. I do have a sound file if you're interested.
 

JDA

DFO Star
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
17,153
Reaction score
5,901
Location
Jeannette, Pa.
Need a go-to ride for big band. Clear definition for horns and reeds to hear, enough wash to give the band a cushion to sit upon, pleasant sound for audience. Crashability not really a factor. I have all of these, but keep going back and forth. Help me! Comments & rational welcomed. Thank you!
Which cymbal is "you" the one you feel "most comfortable" with. That's the one. "It's a style". You are bringing "you" to the setting. The cymbal you feel you can do the most with (and offend the least with..) you take...


that's a 20 old K new stamp with rivet's 2009g nothing special
and a 16x16" bass drum ; ) (and I wanted twin toms that day so I brought along an 8" Ludwig concert tom)
(you can hear it in there)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
any old zildjian medium light couple rivets would do-for me..
I'd take a look (if it's a Ride not a Crash..) at your 20" A & cie
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scottdale 2.jpg scottdale 3.jpg Scottdale Big Band.jpg
 
Last edited:

paulwells73

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2006
Messages
89
Reaction score
79
Location
Brooklyn, NY
You can look at two of the best big band drummers in the world. John Riley and Jeff Hamilton.

Jeff uses the 22" Sabian Hammertone ride. A thinnish, crashable ride.
Same ride he uses with piano trio.

John Riley has used various 22" main ride over the years...none of them heavy or pingy...all very crashable.

Paul Wells...a member here has subbed with VV orchestra. Im guessing he uses same ride as he uses for everything? A 22" k renaissance proto maybe?

Andy Watson is also a VV sub. I think he uses a thin 1950's old A.
Thanks, Tom! When I sub with the Vanguard Jazz Orchestra, I generally use John Riley’s cymbals (he leaves a set at the club for use with the big band.) The ride was a 22” Renaissance until a couple of years ago, when he switched to a different 22” K prototype. They’re both in the 2500-2600g range.

I also subbed twice last year with the Jazz At Lincoln Center Orchestra. The first night, I used a 20” Agop 30th that weighs 1946g. The second time I played with them, I used an Intermediate stamp 22” old K that weighs 2474g. They both worked well, but the old K has a bit of a stronger stick sound.

I like rides that have a dark, musical wash with a clear but woody stick sound. This works regardless of the size of the band, but I do tend to prefer 22s that are between 2300g and 2600g for a big band. I don’t think you need to go heavier than that. You can definitely generate enough definition and clarity for the band to follow and feel comfortable with a ride like that if you play it with confidence and intent.
 

CC Cirillo

Very well Known Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
709
Reaction score
1,071
Location
Northern California
Which cymbal is "you" the one you feel "most comfortable" with. That's the one. "It's a style". You are bringing "you" to the setting. The cymbal you feel you can do the most with (and offend the least with..) you take...


that's a 20 old K new stamp with rivet's 2009g nothing special
and a 16x16" bass drum ; ) (and I wanted twin toms that day so I brought along an 8" Ludwig concert tom)
(you can hear it in there)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
any old zildjian medium light couple rivets would do-for me..
I'd take a look (if it's a Ride not a Crash..) at your 20" A & cie
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
View attachment 452694 View attachment 452695 View attachment 452696
I liked that, mate. Had a Basie/Payne vibe.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JDA

CC Cirillo

Very well Known Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
709
Reaction score
1,071
Location
Northern California
For a ride I’m thinking a Chrysler 300c Touring Wagon. Enough room for your kit, and still some seating left for a few sax players or some honeys, depends on your priorities.

I recall reading Roy Haynes drove one. A band mate and I used to refer to that car as a “Roy”, as in “You know you got something going on when you pull up to the gig in a Roy.”

Anyway, yeah, a Ping. Drives the band like a nice car.
 

Bri6366

Very well Known Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Messages
1,315
Reaction score
479
Location
Levittown, PA
1980 Zildjian Cymbal Set Ups of Famous Drummers-

Buddy Rich- 20" Light Ride
Louie Bellson- 20" Ping Ride
Ed Shaughnessy- 21" Rock Ride
Butch Miles- 20" Ping Ride Brilliant
Don Lamond- 20" Ping Ride
Warren Daly- 22" Ping Ride
Duffy Jackson- 20" Medium Ride
Bob Rosengarden- 18" Light Ride Sizzle and 18" Flat Top Ride
Harold Jones- 20" Medium Ride
Adam Shendal- 22" Ping Ride
Jake Hanna- 18" Crash/Ride Brilliant
Sol Gubin- 20" Deep Ride
 

CSR

Member since May 2000
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
6,890
Reaction score
1,638
Location
- Snow Belt, New York State, USA, Earth
Interesting. Votes are pretty split, but the highest votes (out of a limited number) are for the highest and lowest weight rides. I know what sounds best to me, but I was wondering what would sound best to the other players and the audience. Thanks for participating/suggesting, and I’ll welcome continued responses.
 

JDA

DFO Star
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
17,153
Reaction score
5,901
Location
Jeannette, Pa.
a really good big band just "plays" itself.. you are adding color with a non-pitched instruments..

ha)
"you're' really the only "dope' in the band..

lol just kidding...) lol
~
yeah " don't __ it up
lol)
a ping-only ride "like an Ice bell"...sounds __- need something with some spread...
to cover (accompany) the whole landscape (from the flutes to the bass clarinet...(ha maybe (on cymbal choice) each his own
 
Last edited:

tkillian

DFO Master
Joined
Mar 9, 2006
Messages
3,021
Reaction score
1,513
1980 Zildjian Cymbal Set Ups of Famous Drummers-

Buddy Rich- 20" Light Ride
Louie Bellson- 20" Ping Ride
Ed Shaughnessy- 21" Rock Ride
Butch Miles- 20" Ping Ride Brilliant
Don Lamond- 20" Ping Ride
Warren Daly- 22" Ping Ride
Duffy Jackson- 20" Medium Ride
Bob Rosengarden- 18" Light Ride Sizzle and 18" Flat Top Ride
Harold Jones- 20" Medium Ride
Adam Shendal- 22" Ping Ride
Jake Hanna- 18" Crash/Ride Brilliant
Sol Gubin- 20" Deep Ride
Thats a great list of great drummers who, imo, play a "similar" approach/style of big band drumming thats fits with the arrangement/compisitional style of the bands they played with.

I think another "approach/school of thought" would be coming out of the Mel Lewis approach.

Mel played darker, lower pitched old ks that sat under the band and had a nice wash/ cushion. He was very opinionated about cymbal choice and you can hear him talk about it in the history of jazz drumming radio shows.

That list of drummers above were, in general, a little more heavy handed and out front/on top and soloistic. Coming out of the Gene Krupa approach....and really lets face it...Buddy Rich.

Mel approached the big band with more of a small group approach.

So a lot of this is your own tastes and what kind of vibe/style fits your band etc.
 

Bri6366

Very well Known Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Messages
1,315
Reaction score
479
Location
Levittown, PA
Thats a great list of great drummers who, imo, play a "similar" approach/style of big band drumming thats fits with the arrangement/compisitional style of the bands they played with.

I think another "approach/school of thought" would be coming out of the Mel Lewis approach.

Mel played darker, lower pitched old ks that sat under the band and had a nice wash/ cushion. He was very opinionated about cymbal choice and you can hear him talk about it in the history of jazz drumming radio shows.

That list of drummers above were, in general, a little more heavy handed and out front/on top and soloistic. Coming out of the Gene Krupa approach....and really lets face it...Buddy Rich.

Mel approached the big band with more of a small group approach.

So a lot of this is your own tastes and what kind of vibe/style fits your band etc.
In addition to the above, I omitted a number of Zildjian artists listed in the book at the time (Mel Lewis for example) were really playing Turkish K's at the time or older Zildjians.
 

hawker

DFO Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2005
Messages
2,594
Reaction score
98
Are we in agreement that Buddy played a Light Ride? I've heard that before but I'm not sure from authoritative sources? Plus, it seems odd that a Light Ride would cut through an aggressive band like Buddy's did. I've listened for decades trying to discern what it is on my own....but I can't. But then, there's a lot about Buddy's playing I can't figure out. :)
 

Seb77

DFO Veteran
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
2,343
Reaction score
960
Location
Germany
Are we in agreement that Buddy played a Light Ride? I've heard that before but I'm not sure from authoritative sources? Plus, it seems odd that a Light Ride would cut through an aggressive band like Buddy's did. I've listened for decades trying to discern what it is on my own....but I can't. But then, there's a lot about Buddy's playing I can't figure out. :)
Judging by videos/sounds and comparing to cymbals I have played (and weighed :) I'd say he used a 20" roughly around 2000-2200g most of the time. In the late 70s, early 80s he went to much heavier rides for a while. As often have more "zing" and thus cut, compared to another cymbal of the same weight.
 

Markkuliini

DFO Veteran
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Messages
2,760
Reaction score
1,213
Location
Sweden/Finland
We also need to remember that there are very different big bands, style and experience-vise and that should effect the cymbal choice. Experienced big band that plays lighter might not need to hear as much ping as younger band playing Brian Setzer repertoire.
 

jaymandude

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2020
Messages
232
Reaction score
180
Those light 20’s people are voting for would never work for me. I get the 2600 gram Renaissance for sure. But a 2000 gram 20 ?
 

tkillian

DFO Master
Joined
Mar 9, 2006
Messages
3,021
Reaction score
1,513
Those light 20’s people are voting for would never work for me. I get the 2600 gram Renaissance for sure. But a 2000 gram 20 ?
Its because it will be bright and some drummers "hear/see" buddy rich when they think big band. Nothing wrong with that.

I know a few drummers that are NOT into any of the bebop and postbop music or drummers. They probably listen to Big Swing Face every morning with breakfast and watch Buddy videos all day.(exaggerating to make a point)

Absolutely fine and cool. Im not judging.

When Im in the mood for big band I pull out Thad Jones/Mel Lewis at the VV, or my various Toshiko Akioshi big band or late 70s early 80s Woody Herman out.

Different "strokes" for different folks.

Dark, sizzle, wet ride..playing like hes in a quartet. It fits the arrangement

Vs.
I mean this bell is really cutting and high pitched. Sounds like a thinnis, bright 20" A to me


 
Last edited:

Latest posts



Top