What To Do - With a Heavy Crash/Ride

cplueard

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My recommendation is always to try the "Salsero" treatment if you still want a good ride out of it.

Good 1"-2" around the bell and on the edge. Opens crashability while still keeping the ride beautifully defined.
 

JimmySticks

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I would just keep your Kashian set 100% original. And in the meantime, keep an eye out for a 1400-1600 gm 18" Kashian. It's out there somewhere. Not much you can do when they're over about 1700-1750 gm. They're use is basically limited to a high pitched (ting ting) left side ride....or a hand crash cymbal. I had a 1900 gm 18" Paiste Sound Forumula "hand cymbal" that was a darn nice high pitched ride. But I disliked the fact that it wasn't crashable.

The Alejians, Kashians, Zenjians, etc. can be rather clunky or deadish cymbals at times even if lighter. It's not always just the weight.
Wow, you really hit the nail on the head! :oops:

Ting, ting. Yes, that's the sound! I don't love it to be honest and the crash isn't really very crashable. Like hitting a manhole cover and the resulting sound for your effort just isn't very satisfying.

I hear you about leaving her alone, that's probably the smart move, but I didn't pay much for this cymbal, so I don't mind messing around with it and receiving an education in cymbal smithing at the same time.
 

Old Drummer

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I'm not really sure.

I contacted the young cymbalsmith in Brooklyn, Jesse Simpson, and told him what I wanted out of this cymbal and thought lathing weight off might get it there, and he replied saying he can definitely help get the cymbal where I want it to be. He didnt mention hammering except to say he does that service as well.

My un educated guess is that hammering would only have to be done if your skinning a lot of weight off a cymbal, but probably not for a few hundred grams. I'm hoping to get some education out of this!:)

I'm hoping to get the cymbal to him tomorrow and if it doesn't offend anyone's sensibilities here, (JDA) I will continue this thread by posting the results... :-D
I'll be real interested in hearing how it goes with Simpson. All I know is that I have one of his reworked cymbals.
 

hsosdrum

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Ok, I sent an email off to Steve Maxwell's shop to get a lathing price.

My guess is no matter what the price, with shipping, will put me well under water with this cymbal, but it's a keeper, and sometimes it's just not about the money, is it? I mean, it's about the vibe, the sound... right? (help me here!) :help: :binky:
If the cymbal is a "keeper" and you want to keep the Kashians as a set then I would simply replace it with a lighter cymbal. Lathing is a gamble — it may change some of the attributes you like about the cymbal.
 

JimmySticks

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If the cymbal is a "keeper" and you want to keep the Kashians as a set then I would simply replace it with a lighter cymbal. Lathing is a gamble — it may change some of the attributes you like about the cymbal.
It's actually not to easy to find these cymbals. I'm always on the lookout in the usual places, but they're not nearly as prolific as old Zilds.

Anyway, Jesse already has the cymbal now, so I'm all in. I met him today, and he's a really nice young man and I feel really comfortable giving him this cymbal. He knows what I'm looking for and will lathe it down about 150 grams to start and send me a sound file or video to see if it's where I want it. He's lathing underneath in order to keep the Kashian stamp. He'll go more if necessary. He doesn't think hammering will be necessary, and will add rivets if I want, which I think I'll do if the cymbal is where I want it.

And yeah, he has some really nice cymbals in his shop!
 

JimmySticks

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So I just visited Jesse's shop and picked up the cymbal and it really does sound so much better.

Jesse wound up taking off 200 gram's to bring it in at a more reasonable 1600 gram's. The lathing looks beautiful. The sound is much more open now, and that ting-ting ride sound is now gone, replaced with a much more pleasant tone and a little more wash. The old heavyweight of this cymbal didn't let it ring out IMO. It was sort of dead at that weight. It sounds a little darker to me as well. The crash has definitely improved at the new weight as well, because it rings out nicely with a much more pleasant, jazzier tone.

Tell me what you think of these before/after demo's of it. I added 3 rivets, but they are not on the cymbal for these videos.

Before
After
 

D. B. Cooper

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So I just visited Jesse's shop and picked up the cymbal and it really does sound so much better.

Jesse wound up taking off 200 gram's to bring it in at a more reasonable 1600 gram's. The lathing looks beautiful. The sound is much more open now, and that ting-ting ride sound is now gone, replaced with a much more pleasant tone and a little more wash. The old heavyweight of this cymbal didn't let it ring out IMO. It was sort of dead at that weight. It sounds a little darker to me as well. The crash has definitely improved at the new weight as well, because it rings out nicely with a much more pleasant, jazzier tone.

Tell me what you think of these before/after demo's of it. I added 3 rivets, but they are not on the cymbal for these videos.

Before
After
Cool. I love the before and after videos, thanks for sharing.

Is it a little drier now?
 

JDA

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Now you'll find another -like the original- and play them together one on each side
 

JimmySticks

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Lathing "shocks" cymbal and often they sound bit dry after lathing. The sound usually opens up after week or 2.
I've heard that.

Maxwell says he won't even play a cymbal for 24 hours after lathing because of that shock. Kind of amazing to think that bronze and tin could be "shocked" like that.
 

Markkuliini

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I've heard that.

Maxwell says he won't even play a cymbal for 24 hours after lathing because of that shock. Kind of amazing to think that bronze and tin could be "shocked" like that.
It's really quite remarkable how much they change when they're brand new or re-lathed. And playing speeds up the settling process, I think. Some drummers even do mallet rolls so the whole cymbal vibrates maximum amount.

Friend of mine just received a new Funch 22" ride via post, and after first test session he commented that it sounded really good. But then he went to play it again the next day and said that it had turned over night from really good to amazing.
And I have noticed the same thing with my new cymbals too, that I have gotten really fresh. The sound deepens and becomes sweeter, and usually there's more treble in the end.
 
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Old Drummer

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So I just visited Jesse's shop and picked up the cymbal and it really does sound so much better.

Jesse wound up taking off 200 gram's to bring it in at a more reasonable 1600 gram's. The lathing looks beautiful. The sound is much more open now, and that ting-ting ride sound is now gone, replaced with a much more pleasant tone and a little more wash. The old heavyweight of this cymbal didn't let it ring out IMO. It was sort of dead at that weight. It sounds a little darker to me as well. The crash has definitely improved at the new weight as well, because it rings out nicely with a much more pleasant, jazzier tone.

Tell me what you think of these before/after demo's of it. I added 3 rivets, but they are not on the cymbal for these videos.

Before
After
Not the right answer, but I kind of prefer the before. Of course, my preference is irrelevant. Relevant is the sound you want.

Tastes aside, it's fascinating to hear the same cymbal minus 200 grams. It does sound like the same cymbal, but also very different.

I'm also glad Jesse worked out for you.
 

JimmySticks

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Not the right answer, but I kind of prefer the before. Of course, my preference is irrelevant. Relevant is the sound you want.

Tastes aside, it's fascinating to hear the same cymbal minus 200 grams. It does sound like the same cymbal, but also very different.

I'm also glad Jesse worked out for you.
Hey, no worries, there's really no right answer. When I posted those before/after videos, I figured the opinions could go the other way! :)

How it sounds to one's ear is all subjective. I know I didn't like it before and I wasn't using it much, but now with some weight off of it and the 3 rivets, it'll have a steady spot to the right of my main ride.

And Jesse is a real gentleman, and a solid young man. I hope he does well.
 

Soulfinger

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Funny, it sounds much better than I expected on the "before" video.
But it is really nice now, good move. It´s pretty noticeable in the "after" video how much more it inspires your playing.
 

JimmySticks

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Funny, it sounds much better than I expected on the "before" video.
But it is really nice now, good move. It´s pretty noticeable in the "after" video how much more it inspires your playing.
Actually, that's Jesse playing on the demo's. He's quite a drummer as well as cymbal maker.

It is funny how sometimes things that don't sound good from behind the kit, sound really good in front of it. Some things also sound better recorded than when live as well. This might be a case like that, because I admit he made the original weight sound pretty good, but I was never truly happy playing it. So in the end, I'm happy with the outcome because I think it really opened this cymbal up and is more suitable for me and what I'm playing.
 

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