What would you do?

pontiacrich

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Question for all:

I recently bought a cymbal off of ebay for around $160 + S/H ($15). The cymbal was reported to be near mint and only used twice. When I received the cymbal, there was a small, but very noticeable dent on the edge. I have been in contact with the seller and he or she has offered me a partial refund ($25) and I can keep the cymbal, or I can return for a full refund. The seller has been very good so far and I'd like to keep things going in a positive manner.

So a few of questions:

First, I want to try out the cymbal and see if it's sound has been affected by the dent, This would consist of me using it on my set for 5 or 10 minutes to listen to it; the question is this: Would playing an edge dented cymbal cause it any harm (crack etc.) that might make the seller be less inclined to offer a return?

Second, if I like the sound and want to keep it, what is your opinion of the amount of the partial refund?

Initially I thought the amount was too low and countered by asking for $50 refund ($35 for the cymbal and a refund of the $15 S&H charge). The third question is: did I ask for too much as a refund?

I know the seller wants to make money, and I want him or her to. But I also want to be fair to myself and not pay too much for a damaged item. I know I have the option to completely return the item, but if it sounds good and we can come to an agreement on refund amount, I'm thinking evverything will work out.

Last question: What do you think the long term effect on the cymbal will be with the dent - does anyone think it will crack?

I will try to post a picture of it tomorrow, but being on the egdge, I'm not sure how good it will turn out.

Thanks for your input folks! :occasion5:
 

K.O.

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Was the dent there before (and not mentioned in the listing) or did it happen in the shipping of the cymbal to you?
 

Thud

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It probably took a hit in shipping.
If you like the sound of it, take his offer. Playing it for 10 minutes won't damage it anymore than it already is.
If you want to be a real thorn in his side, you can address this through Paypal (I imagine that's how you paid) and you can set how much of a refund you want and it will be very difficult to contest it. I had a person buy a stereo equalizer from me do this and I had little recourse so I settled as opposed to tying up my money for a month.
What size, brand, model is the cymbal?

Good luck with this.
 

fun2drum

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Assuming you like the cymbal, I would put the ball in the seller's court. Let the seller choose whether to give you a complete refund and pay for shipping both ways, or to give you the $50.00 partial refund for the undisclosed damage. I sell stuff on eBay and I would have probably made that offer to my buyer if the same thing happened.
 

pontiacrich

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Was the dent there before (and not mentioned in the listing) or did it happen in the shipping of the cymbal to you?
Seller said it definitely was not dented before shipment.
 

pontiacrich

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It probably took a hit in shipping.
If you like the sound of it, take his offer. Playing it for 10 minutes won't damage it anymore than it already is.
If you want to be a real thorn in his side, you can address this through Paypal (I imagine that's how you paid) and you can set how much of a refund you want and it will be very difficult to contest it. I had a person buy a stereo equalizer from me do this and I had little recourse so I settled as opposed to tying up my money for a month.
What size, brand, model is the cymbal?

Good luck with this.
It's a Zildjian 19" A-Series Rock Crash. I've posted a picture right off of the ebay listing. The dent is at the edge of the cymbal, approximately above the "H" in "Crash".

I'm still working with the seller. He has requested photos of the dent as well as photos of the top and bottom of the cymbal with the dent and lettering included. It's going to be hard to get pix that encompass what he wants entirely, but I would like to keep this whole issue moving in a positive direction. So I'll do my best to keep this positive and only resort to your suggestion if absolutely necessary (but I do appreciate the information very much :occasion5: ).
 

pontiacrich

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Assuming you like the cymbal, I would put the ball in the seller's court. Let the seller choose whether to give you a complete refund and pay for shipping both ways, or to give you the $50.00 partial refund for the undisclosed damage. I sell stuff on eBay and I would have probably made that offer to my buyer if the same thing happened.
Thanks F2D. Seller emailed me last night stating that ebay return policy states that buyer pays return shipping. I did tell him, I was not at all in agreement with that.
 

fun2drum

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Looking at the seller's 249 at 100% feedback, I noticed that only 4 of them were from buyers, and that was looking back to the year 2008. All 4 of those were since June 30th of this year. This is not an experienced seller. Let them know that you bought in good faith based on their "like new" description and that you would like to be able to give them good feedback. Then wait for their response. FYI- a seller can't leave negative feedback for the buyer, but the buyer can leave it for the seller, so they can't retaliate against you. Obviously try to resolve the matter nicely before feedback is left, but if you have to leave negative feedback, that might just give the seller motivation to work with you. You can always revise the feedback once you are satisfied.
 

doctor dirt

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In the auction pic there looks like a dent on the edge above (A crash/ride)even so if you like the sound then discount 20% or send it back. Doc
 

fun2drum

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In the auction pic there looks like a dent on the edge above (A crash/ride)even so if you like the sound then discount 20% or send it back. Doc
I think I see what you're talking about, but this is all in hindsight. Before seeing the cymbal in person you can't tell that it's anything other than the other multitude of smudges and light reflections. Also consider that the following was in the description: "Near Mint, Used Twice. NO Keyholing or Cracks. Completely solid and like brand new except a few light stick markings that will polish right off and a few tiny marks on the cymbal that will polish right off too which are just dust from leaning against another cymbal in my cymbal bag. I only wiped the dust off with a dry towel. Polish this and it will look brand new."

Granted, if the description had left all that "mint" and "like brand new" stuff out, then I would feel a little more sorry for them. They may should have looked the cymbal over a little more carefully before describing it. That's a rookie seller mistake that I've made before as well. When I did it, I paid up to satisfy the customer and made sure it never happened again. Also, unless the the box was damaged or the cymbal came packed in an envelope, I doubt that damage was caused in shipping.
 

pontiacrich

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Anyone here on this forum live in Maine? Portland area maybe, Lewiston/Auburn, or Augusta?

The seller is now calling me a liar and telling ebay that I'm trying to extort money from him. The photos I sent him have convinced him tht there is no dent at all and I'm lying.

What I need is this: I need someone else to put there hands on this cymbal and confirm or deny that there is a dent, and is willing to put their conclusion in writing, either way. I'll even pay to have this notarized. Simple and quick. I do not want to ffer gas money because I don't want seller to think that I am buying someone's opinion..

Anyone interested and/or available please PM me.

Thanks & Regards,

Rich
 

pontiacrich

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Here are the pics I sent seller:

ebay buy damaged cymbal

I colored the dent w/blue pen to try and make it more visible. I am absolutely positive that if one person puts their hands on this cymbal they will feel what I feel and see.
 

fun2drum

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ebay is not going to take that seller seriously. I would go ahead and leave negative feedback. Then open a case with ebay to help you resolve it with that seller. it sounds like the seller has a screw loose.
 

Riouel

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at 158.00 + Sh return it i would say

it up to you

good luck
 

pontiacrich

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at 158.00 + Sh return it i would say

it up to you

good luck
Thanks Riouel, But it's another S&H charge out of my pocket and seller is going to charge me a restocking fee.

It's the principle of the matter.
 

atomicdave

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pretty simple facts here...you can indeed see the dent in the pic in the listing, same place as in your pics (shows even better in sellers pic)...the seller is either completely unknowledged of what the condition of a cymbal is, or he really noticed it and decided not to mention int. I've never hear of a restocking fee...he's not an ebay store and its not a new item, so I believe he cannot charge that. If you want to return it TALK to someone at Ebay, they will most likey rule (you did open dispute case, right?) that seller gives full refund although you MIGHT have to pay to ship it back, maybe not. Ebay can be a crap shoot...I've got burned a couple of times as a buyer, not really badly, and gave in to dissapointed buyers. The dent doesnt look too bad, so if it were me, I would take the partial refund and THEN leave negative...not to hurt his score but more to inform others that his cymbal grading ability is NO GOOD! (thats kinda what feedback is really for). I dont dabble with cymbals that new...I do know a 70's 18" (yes, I know thats 19") heavy crash can be had for under a hundred bux, so to pay 175 for that expecting no dent of such would be a major letdown...I guess if you can convince Ebay to have him give 100% refund PLUS seller pay you for return shipping then that would be a better lesson for the seller then leaving negative feedback.
 

pontiacrich

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pretty simple facts here...you can indeed see the dent in the pic in the listing, same place as in your pics (shows even better in sellers pic)...the seller is either completely unknowledged of what the condition of a cymbal is, or he really noticed it and decided not to mention int. I've never hear of a restocking fee...he's not an ebay store and its not a new item, so I believe he cannot charge that. If you want to return it TALK to someone at Ebay, they will most likey rule (you did open dispute case, right?) that seller gives full refund although you MIGHT have to pay to ship it back, maybe not. Ebay can be a crap shoot...I've got burned a couple of times as a buyer, not really badly, and gave in to dissapointed buyers. The dent doesnt look too bad, so if it were me, I would take the partial refund and THEN leave negative...not to hurt his score but more to inform others that his cymbal grading ability is NO GOOD! (thats kinda what feedback is really for). I dont dabble with cymbals that new...I do know a 70's 18" (yes, I know thats 19") heavy crash can be had for under a hundred bux, so to pay 175 for that expecting no dent of such would be a major letdown...I guess if you can convince Ebay to have him give 100% refund PLUS seller pay you for return shipping then that would be a better lesson for the seller then leaving negative feedback.
Thanks atomicdave. Yes I did open a dipute in the resolution center and called ebay regarding the situation. This evening after he started calling me a liar and that I was trying to rob him, extort him and that these "crimes" were punishible by X number of years in prison and $Y,000, I escalated it up the ebay chain of command - whatever that is? In my escalation email I offered to take the cymbal to an unbiased 3rd party for review and I would abide with whatever that person said. If the person says No Dent, then I'd apologize and leave things as they are; if there's a dent, I want an apology and my partial refund.

It's interesting that people say they can see the dent in the listing pix, as I totally missed it before today. Here's what the sellers initial comment was to me when I informed him of the dent:

"Wow, I'm very sorry to hear that. I've shipped cymbals before like that no problem. It was definitely dent free when it shipped."
 

drumhead

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Return fee and restocking fee, I'd argue, would apply if your were dissatisfied with the crash as it was described. Since it was not, then those fee should go out the window and the seller should assume them.

I'd just tell him, "Look, the cymbal is dented. Your either refund $50 or take it back at your expense. Your choice." And I'd continue with claim thru eBay, which may be even more satisfactory.
 

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