When did people stop playing butt end on snare ?

[jaymandude]

Butt end for cross stick always, but I'm old.

Thank you

 

[backtodrum]

I would advise not putting too much money on that.

If anything the difference is magnified when recording - as the priority for a the richest, fullest sound is a priority - but so is trying to get the volume of the crosstick sound up there closer to the regular snare sound. Playing with the butt out greatly facilities both of those things.

Personally I find it pretty easy to spot the thin, unfocused sound of a tip forward crosstick sound on recordings. Unless someone as jumped through major mixing hoops to fix it - that is. Automating e.q. and levels just for the crosstick sections - or of course, doing sample replacement - in which case, we're no longer really hearing the tip forward sound anyway.

Other folks' mileage may vary with this - but for me, in my experience, the difference is quite dramatic.

I agree!

 

[JDA]

Thank you

You're not old.. you know how old Earl Palmer is to day?: )

I would be interested who of you are against Trad. grip and (yet..) play matched with butt-end out on one hand

lemme guess: zero.

 

[DanRH]

Sometimes when I want to put some heft into the backbeat but most of the time, no.

 

[JDA]

So a you think Purdie grip , as the term for butt end out one stick- snare side) matched will catch on?

I'd like it to be used at this years NAMM Zoom call discussions in a few weeks time..

 

[JDA]

I'll only repeat my case for the name adoption 400,567 times; the only I know of, reference there is.
Is in the June 1979 issue of Modern Drummer
MD is Modern drummer magazine
BP is Bernard Purdie.
````````````````````````````

The New York Scene - Modern Drummer Magazine

Modern Drummer's first discussion of percussion includes four of the busiest drummers on the New York Scene today: Herb Lovelle, Ralph MacDonald, Bernard Purdie and Grady Tate.

www.moderndrummer.com

MD: What model sticks do you prefer?
BP: Mine, I finally got my own. They are the Bernard Purdie model.
MD: Nylon or wooden tips?
BP: Wooden tipped.
MD: What grip do you find most comfortable, matched or traditional?
BP: Both. But my matched grip is matched grip.
MD: Didn’t I see you turn the butt end around in your left hand?
BP: Yeah, I use the butt end in my left hand.
MD: In your left hand? You mean you use the bead on the drum head?
BP: No, I use the butt on the head.
MD: That isn’t matched grip, is it?
BP: Well, it’s not called matched grip, I forgot what I call it now. For me, in order to balance the stick out and play what I want to play, I beat on the butt with my left hand, because it gives me better control. The feel is right in my hand. That to me was matched grip because then the stick became level by holding the small part of the stick and letting the stick be able to rebound. The stick does very little rebounding in matched grip.
MD: Do you also use this grip when soloing?
BP: I use it whenever I want to. When I’m playing hard, it’s easier to go that way for me. I use the traditional when I’m lazy, when I just want to groove and not do anything.
~


remind me to put my swish on the main right today;
something, to do.

 

[JDA]

what do you think about calling it Soul Grip.
so there'd be matched, Trad, Soul Grip.

 

[ThomasL]

BP: ... For me, in order to balance the stick out and play what I want to play, I beat on the butt with my left hand, because it gives me better control.

Somewhat amusing out of context...

 

[JDA]

Betcha it's colder and grayer in Finland today than it is today in Pennsylvania

National Weather Service

forecast.weather.gov

but not by much..
talk about being bored.

 

[DavedrumsTX]

So what is the time line on this ? All thru the 70’s and even into the 80’s most of the name guys played the butt end on the snare for a fatter sound. And definitely on the cross stick. But I see SO many drummers playing tip end out cross stick ( it sounds terrible to me ) and hardly anyone playing the drum with a reversed stick.

what happened? Bigger sticks ? Recording? Folks don’t care as much ?

We used to have very few stick companies in the day. When I started I remember ProMark, Calato/Regal Tip and yes Ludwig. Now we have big and small companies producing hundreds of different styles that address the need for those who need a bigger stick with more mass to head ratio.

 

[gwbasley]

I wasn't aware that anyone stopped...

 

[Topbnanna]

So what is the time line on this ? All thru the 70’s and even into the 80’s most of the name guys played the butt end on the snare for a fatter sound. And definitely on the cross stick. But I see SO many drummers playing tip end out cross stick ( it sounds terrible to me ) and hardly anyone playing the drum with a reversed stick.

what happened? Bigger sticks ? Recording? Folks don’t care as much ?

I’m a butt end cross stick guy.. tip side has too flimsy of a sound . Also, playing butt end on sn as re for a length of time will result in blister problems.

 

[SplineSpider]

So I'm 54 almost 55. I started taking lessons at Shields Music in Tulsa in 1970. No one ever taught me to cross stick with butt end out. I just learned over time I could do it or slide the stick up to just the right zone on the shoulder tip out to get the same sound. So I play matches grip tip out and I have always gotten a fat loud cross stick sound. I have had to play a lot of country music over the years and a great cross stick snare sound is a must. Oh and just for notes I play a Regal Tip 7A Jazz stick with a nylon tip. As long thin and light as anyone you know. I dont break many sticks. I dont get complaints of playing to quietly but dynamics are something a lot of drummers need to learn.

 

[DamnSingerAlsoDrums]

Love the fat, butt end on the snare sound. I don't use it much because I almost always clumsily drop my stick when I try to swith it back the right way

 

[Corbin L Douthitt]

the great hal blaine told me just flipping the stick around gives you 2 different sounds out of your snare. you want one drum to be able to make many sounds.

i'm with you on playing cross-stick with the butt end.

Cross stick on the butt! Crisp sound. I suspect the players who don’t flip the stick, never learned to play Trad grip or are not comfortable with TG. Maybe- they don’t care about the sound. Or- they don’t want chips and splinters where they hold the stick. Maybe they chew up sticks like they have an endorsement?

 

[Hillcom]

So what is the time line on this ? All thru the 70’s and even into the 80’s most of the name guys played the butt end on the snare for a fatter sound. And definitely on the cross stick. But I see SO many drummers playing tip end out cross stick ( it sounds terrible to me ) and hardly anyone playing the drum with a reversed stick.

what happened? Bigger sticks ? Recording? Folks don’t care as much ?

I play butt end of my sticks, both of them, all of the time. Its a weight thing and a fatter sound to me.

 

[michaelocalypse]

I was just sent a "drum teacher reacts" video where he commented that the guy was playing with the butt end. (Russian death metal band, I think Demolisher is the song, there's a play through.) He talked about it like it's not uncommon at all. I personally don't see people doing it.

Back in the late 1990s, early 2000s I had some sticks (Zildjian, don't remember the model) that had no shoulder or tip. Not timbale sticks. They were made for drum set, specifically "rock" and even painted black too (the real reason I bought them, tbh). I murdered a few cymbals around then, so I quit using those sticks. I'm not sure if it's coincidental, but the cymbal murders stopped when I quit using them. But I didn't notice any benefits to playing with sticks like that, and turning them around just makes them harder to hold on to.

 

[RyanLovesDrums]

Good topic. I’ve been holding the left stick butt-end lately a lot because I’ve been into Manu Katche lately and he always holds it that way. Then I noticed that Levon Helm always held it traditional grip that way as well as Elvin Jones. And recently I saw a picture of Jamie Oldaker RIP holding both the sticks butt-end matched. That can be fun too but like someone said earlier it sounds lousy riding on a cymbal that way.

 

[Fredthered]

I mostly play with the butt end in my right hand (i'm a lefty) live but it depends on the room (size), the band (volume), stick size and the style of music. I always use the butt end for cross-stick and in the studio (on backbeat oriented songs) because it gives you a thicker/broader sound. I studied with Purdie in the 80's and using the butt end of the stick was one of his commandments but to each their own I guess.

 

[RichS]

So what is the time line on this ? All thru the 70’s and even into the 80’s most of the name guys played the butt end on the snare for a fatter sound. And definitely on the cross stick. But I see SO many drummers playing tip end out cross stick ( it sounds terrible to me ) and hardly anyone playing the drum with a reversed stick.

what happened? Bigger sticks ? Recording? Folks don’t care as much ?

Back in the late 60's and through the 70's I played butt first. BECAUSE both guitarists had Marshall stacks, the bass player played through 2 SVTs, and keyboard player had a B3 through a Leslie miced through a Fender Dual Showman. The PA was only for vocals. They didn't mic drums. My 5As didn't hold up even butt first. I switched to 2Bs backwards and still broke 3-5 sticks a night. Broke at least 1 drum head each night. Frequently broke an A Zildjian cymbal. I played so hard the Converse high tops were soaked with sweat after the 1st 45 minute set. Now everything is miced. Using 5As tip first and don't sweat so much. Sounds better too. Sometimes will play butt first for a fatter sound. Depends on the song.