Whiplash Backlash

[toddbishop]

Again because the film was done non-union - and the players involved would've all insisted that no credit - nor even mention of their contributions be made in any way. In Los Angeles, tons of top union film musicians record non-union films - but only anonymously. Because in spite of how wide-spread the practice is - public recognition of it being wide-spread is incredibly frowned upon with the union and contractors of union films.

Fair enough. They made such a big point in their publicity that Teller did "99%" of the drumming-- like what was the 1% of that he wasn't able to cut, allegedly?-- I assumed they were trying to keep it secret for the sake of the "illusion."

I couldn't detect that the filmmakers were fans of music or musicians whatsoever, so I don't really believe they were heartbroken over it.

Exactly what dcrigger said. He said it better than I.

That's not what you said, though.

 

[bigbonzo]

Fair enough. They made such a big point in their publicity that Teller did "99%" of the drumming-- like what was the 1% of that he wasn't able to cut, allegedly?-- I assumed they were trying to keep it secret for the sake of the "illusion."

I couldn't detect that the filmmakers were fans of music or musicians whatsoever, so I don't really believe they were heartbroken over it.



That's not what you said, though.

No, it's what dcrigger said.

 

[toddbishop]

And no, Miles did not play everything - not by the longest of shots. He does play - which served him very well at looking like he's playing. But realize - we hardly ever hear anyone play an instrument on film. Even if it's the actual player - 99.99999% of music performance in film is pre-recorded.... and it has been since the mid-30's.

I understand that, I can tell when something is being played live and when it isn't. Have to disagree about his playing abilities.

 

[Tornado]

Fair enough. They made such a big point in their publicity that Teller did "99%" of the drumming-- like what was the 1% of that he wasn't able to cut, allegedly?-- I assumed they were trying to keep it secret for the sake of the "illusion."

They were pretty deceptive about this. I'm sure it was Teller in 99% of what you see on the screen. There's a few hands only shots that likely aren't him. It's just that 99% of what you hear when he's playing music obviously isn't him. They were all too eager to let people believe otherwise.

 

[jmpd_utoronto]

A friend of mine who went to jazz school and is a killer bassist (like one of the best in the country) and mixing and mastering engineer told me he loved it the other day and I was floored. But then he explained it this way: “you have to look at it like a b-grade kung-fu movie (with master and struggling student), and then it’s funny (in the oh-my-god-this-is-over-the-top sort of way) and entertaining.”
Still probably not gonna watch it though. Even with that perspective it’s everything that drives me nuts about how people view (and do) music education.

 

[bigbonzo]

A friend of mine who went to jazz school and is a killer bassist (like one of the best in the country) and mixing and mastering engineer told me he loved it the other day and I was floored. But then he explained it this way: “you have to look at it like a b-grade kung-fu movie (with master and struggling student), and then it’s funny (in the oh-my-god-this-is-over-the-top sort of way) and entertaining.”

This exactly. There are sooo many movies that do this.
As the iconic phrase says, "lighten up Francis".
Just because we're drummers doesn't mean we have to take this movie so seriously.
It's just entertainment!

 

[wflkurt]

A friend of mine who went to jazz school and is a killer bassist (like one of the best in the country) and mixing and mastering engineer told me he loved it the other day and I was floored. But then he explained it this way: “you have to look at it like a b-grade kung-fu movie (with master and struggling student), and then it’s funny (in the oh-my-god-this-is-over-the-top sort of way) and entertaining.”
Still probably not gonna watch it though. Even with that perspective it’s everything that drives me nuts about how people view (and do) music education.

My best friend from high school is a professional piano player in Vegas and has made his entire living behind a piano since we were in high school back in the late 80's. I showed him this movie and he loved it. We both loved it as we both know how this situation is totally unlikely but it was pretty entertaining. I hate to sound like one of those guys today but the world is SO sensitive about things now. I remember I played a year of football when I was in the 9th grade. I probably had no business being out there as I was short, scrawny and a strong breeze most likely could have blown me over. The coach was pretty much a jerk and the offensive coach was an angry drunk. They made us run our butts off and do drills endlessly. The first thing that always entered my mind was that I never wanted to be last or be the guy that gave up early. I took my beatings on the field and ran endless miles it felt. While being screamed at by an angry coach may not be a lot of fun, I never quit and by the end of the season, I was probably in the best shape I had ever been.

That was my one and only year though as the other guys seeminging grew much bigger than me and I cared far too much about drumming to risk getting seriously hurt. At the time I didn't care for the coaches but I also saw I became focused and driven. Maybe it's different for others but sometimes I feel like setting a celar standard for something can make people do things they never thought they could. I know I have certainly played with some musicians that made me want to kick them in the butt and ask what the heck are they doing? I'm not that kind of person though yet I can still see where Fletcher in this movie is coming from to some degree.

In the end I loved the movie for what it was. I even read that it was purposely edited using a horror filter to the overall look of the thing to give it that flavor. I thought that was pretty cool.

 

[toddbishop]

A friend of mine who went to jazz school and is a killer bassist (like one of the best in the country) and mixing and mastering engineer told me he loved it the other day and I was floored. But then he explained it this way: “you have to look at it like a b-grade kung-fu movie (with master and struggling student), and then it’s funny (in the oh-my-god-this-is-over-the-top sort of way) and entertaining.”

I just see it as a bad rip off of Rounders-- they dumbed it down to a pure melodrama about the talented young guy and the conspiracy of haters keeping him down. The whole mentality is pure toxic ego.

Still probably not gonna watch it though. Even with that perspective it’s everything that drives me nuts about how people view (and do) music education.

It's worth watching just to see how wrong it is. I guess the director was scarred by washing out of music school, and he's getting his revenge.

 

[Rick]

All I can see any time JK Simmons is on the screen is Vern the nazi from Oz. The Terrance Fletcher character wasn't far off.

I thought it was a good movie, not realistic but good fantasy.

That said, because of this movie, there's a gentleman(?) in the trombone section of my big band that likes to turn around and say "That's not my f---ing tempo"....and then he laughs. He also never misses a chance to go into a "more cowbell" mantra.

Just throw a chair at that trombone player's head. He'll get the message...

 

[Mcjnic]

It still noggles the noodle at how adamant people can believe that things work ONLY in the way they personally have experienced it.
There are a LOT of films and a LOT of sessions and a freeeekin TON of musicians out there.
Could it be … maybe … that we have not experienced it all?
Just a question that begs to be asked when feet are dug in so deeply.
We are all just drummers with VERY different life histories.
Mine tells me that there are several incorrect statements here … but my life history is different from others so ... we don’t know what we don’t know.
And it wouldn’t be proper to “correct” members here as we may all be correct based on our own experiences and foundational knowledge.
Probably best to alter the path.

 

[TheDrummerFromAmsterdam]

Sorry - but nope. The lack of musician credits was not the choice of the filmmakers, but rather the musicians. Or rather the rock and the hard place, that low budget films find themselves with the musician's union - partially because of the scale minimums, but more often because of the post-release requirements the union contract imposes on them (most notably the requirement to pay into the Special Payments fund as the film makes money in markets beyond its theatrical release). So while that is often why there is no union contract filed. And from the musician's standpoint - it is one thing to break union rules and record a film "under the table", it is quite another to do that with your name plastered in the credits.

Thus.... no musician credits in Whiplash - or most other non-union films.

And no, Miles did not play everything - not by the longest of shots. He does play - which served him very well at looking like he's playing. But realize - we hardly ever hear anyone play an instrument on film. Even if it's the actual player - 99.99999% of music performance in film is pre-recorded.... and it has been since the mid-30's.

Why?

A ton of reasons - filming is always expensive - so no time to waste on getting a correct audio performance (not when that can be done, in painstaking detail before hand). Plus most films are single camera - meaning one camera angle filmed at a time. Filming to the same pre-recorded performance means editing is a purely a visual exercise, not a musician performance based one. And then there's microphones - you can't film drums in a practice room and have them sound like Whiplash - without mics, well placed mics - usually lots of them and clearly visible. Same with singers - you think we were actually hearing Julie Andrew's sing on that mountaintop in Sound of Music. Same goes for nearly everytime you've heard a singer sing or a player play. Again.... since well back in the 30's.

Motion pictures literally invented the idea of multi-tracking and overdubbing, pre-dubbing, lip-syncing, etc.

That is why they said ''And from all he recorded''.

The distinction should be made between what you see on screen and what is originally recorded. This indeed is common practice and probably mandatory nowadays with all music movies.

Even live concerts usually get some kind of overdub (as edit, or true re-recorded parts).

 

[dcrigger]

As a whole I thought the movie just okay. I just couldn't believe that ANY conductor would act like that.

Well, I had a middle school band director chuck a music stand across the room - middle school!! 7th and 8th grade band!!! (1967-1968)

Then in college had a Wind Ensemble conductor (and one of the primary counselors) that would bring players to tears (girls and guys) with alarming frequency... 1973

Let's not even get into the tyrants I've experienced dealing with in the professional world.

So sure, the movie is dramatized - and not particularly accurate in how it gets these points across (though I believe to make understandable to a lay audience). But that sort sociopathic behavior existing in the real world - including schools, colleges, etc.... absolutely.

 

[Squirrel Man]

Far as I'm concerned there's only one whiplash:

 

[gitch]

We are Drummers
Duuhn ta-tat boom boom boom tat

You forgot the china.

 

[Mcjnic]

Is they’re film with bigger rating? It take long time to find. View attachment 595619

Not being contrary ... just giving a quick example.
If a person puts their attention into ratings ... here's one.
There are many.
I don't spend much time on ratings and reviews.
I'm not interested in what other people think about what I personally viewed or heard.
Just doesn't make much sense to me to give them my attention when I was present.
Hope that makes sense.
Take care.