Who would say 22/16/13 is more versatile than 20/14/12?

[vintagedrummersweden]

Gene Krupa with BG trio and quartet: 26, 13, 16. Sounds great in my ears.
Ringo with Beatles: 20, 12, 14 and later 22, 13, 16. Both sound great to me (can't really hear the difference).
Steve Jordan most often use 14" floor toms and they sound great to me.

I once tried my early drumming hero's Gretsch kit, 24, 13, 14, 16, 18 with pinstripes on. I couldn't get a decent sound out of them. He showed the history of drumming on the same kit making it sound great both for jazz and rock.

When I chose drums for a gig I think as much of the space on stage as on the sound possibilities.
Oh, I play mostly with my garage rock band, 22, 13, 16 - 20, 12, 14 or 28, 13 16 kits to choose from.
I think I'm a pretty sloppy drummer though...

 

[Phantomlimb777]

Joe Morello has been brought up already several times on this thread, as if him playing 13/16/22 would counter almost all the other jazz drummers using smaller kits.
Mentioning him so many times only accentuates how unpopular that size is in jazz.

It's bit difficult to play on drum forum thread, se we need to focus on the writing.

Unpopular and inappropriate are two different things.

I understand that we can’t play here, maybe I need to be here less.

 

[Markkuliini]

Unpopular and inappropriate are two different things.

I understand that we can’t play here, maybe I need to be here less.

Sure, but you're sort of missing the point of the original question.
In this case
Popular = what MOST drummers associate with jazz sound.
Versatile = a kit that (can rock but also) can achieve that sound what most drummers associate with jazz.

There are always exceptions to the rule: I know a very successful rock drummer who mostly plays 18" kicks.
But would I claim that size the most versatile? No.

Exceptions are not what we are searching in this particular thread. We're looking for what's versatile for most of drummers.

 

[JDA]

one guy's versatile is another guy's nightmare


lol

 

[thenuge]

It’s the curse. We’re cursed! Traps. We’re trapped in all our sht. Honey do you really need 2 gongs..ok so can the other one go in the shed instead of the kitchen. No that’s the good one! It has to stay warm and dry! There’s no answer. Be ok with what you have with all its benefits and limits or get the gamut of sizes and types to satisfy…the curse.

 

[1988fxlr]

It’s the curse. We’re cursed! Traps. We’re trapped in all our sht. Honey do you really need 2 gongs..ok so can the other one go in the shed instead of the kitchen. No that’s the good one! It has to stay warm and dry! There’s no answer. Be ok with what you have with all its benefits and limits or get the gamut of sizes and types to satisfy…the curse.

What is the most versatile sized gong?

 

[Tornado]

What is the most versatile sized gong?

I like the smaller ones for jazz, but I think Joe Morello would have gone bigger.

 

[JDA]

to the chagrin of Paul Desmond.

 

[1988fxlr]

I like the smaller ones for jazz, but I think Joe Morello would have gone bigger.

He could take way more than five with a 40” tam tam

 

[hsosdrum]

Gene Krupa with BG trio and quartet: 26, 13, 16. Sounds great in my ears...

Gene actually used a separate kit for the BG trio and quartette numbers (yep, they hauled around two drumsets). Looks to me like a 24" BD with 12" and 10" toms and a 5-1/2" deep snare.

 

[Houndog]

I would think the most versatile kit is the one with the more versatile drummer at the helm .
It’s the drummer not the drums right ??

 

[Browny]

I would think the most versatile kit is the one with the more versatile drummer at the helm .
It’s the drummer not the drums right ??

Within reason. If they’re playing one of the Jordan/yamaha daxdad 12” kicks and a big dw ballad snare with that trash can cymbal from King Crimson’s Red then there’s gonna be limits, regardless of how versatile the drummer is… be it Vinnie or whoever.

 

[fitzsy]

I’ve frequently thought about moving to 13, 16, 20. My 12, 14, 20 sounded great last night and the sound man raved about the drums. I also have 15” and 18” bass drums for this kit (my only kit).

 

[Commodore]

22/13/16 will not really jazz, the 22 just won't go that up. And 16 is often a problem too, rarely have I heard a 16 that sounds that good tuned up.
20/12 would rock if you're a good tuner, but you have to tune 14 too loose (in my opinion) to really make it work in rock.

The most versatile sizes are 20/12/15, in my opinion. I know, it's bit unorthodox, but I'm my experience 15 is the only floor tom size that can bridge that gap.

But between 22/13/16 and 20/12/14, I would say the latter.

Think I've found a compromise... My WMP club date bop kit is 20/12. What about adding this? ...14/15 in the space of one floor tom:

 

[Peano]

Or split the difference by going 20/12/16 or 20/13/16.

Yes. As I read replies, I kept wondering why everyone accepted the assumption that larger toms call for a larger bass. Having said that, I admit I've always played a 22/13/16 set, but that's because I bought it back in the day when 22 was considered the standard for a bass. If I were doing it over today, I'd go 20/13/16.

 

[kevmill70]

22/12/16 will cover everything. There's really not much volume difference between 20/12/14 and 22/12/16. All drums are loud. Put it this way, are you going to pull your cymbals in 2" closer to your body and play a 12" snare drum to fully take advantage of the smaller footprint? I doubt it. It would throw off your muscle memory. The only real reason to play smaller drums is if it's ergonomically necessary (smaller stature, shorter arms, etc...)

 

[flatwins]

When playing out I tend to mix it up a bit. Different kits, different configurations, etc. But if I had to choose on a “standard” I’d probably go with a 13/16/22 setup.

 

[gra7]

I personally think a shallow 22" bass drum - like 14x22" - is more versatile than any 20" bass drum of any depth. Pair the shallow 22" with an 8x12" rack tom, and a floor tom or two - and you are good to go. I do wish that 15" floor toms were more widely available, especially in the Tama Starclassic Walnut/Birch range. I would have ordered a single 15x15" floor tom over the 14x14" and 16x16" floor toms I currently have if that was an option.

 

[Peano]

Pretty sure 13,16,22 worked for Joe M

It did. (I know because I once got to pack up his drums after a Brubeck concert. He wouldn't autograph my program until I did that chore -- which, at age 18, I was thrilled to do!) Interestingly, he tuned the 22 down almost to the point of splattering. And he used a wooden beater.

 

[Peano]

Joe Morello has been brought up already several times on this thread, as if him playing 13/16/22 would counter almost all the other jazz drummers using smaller kits.

For some drummers, transportation can be a critical factor. My first teacher, a killer jazz drummer, drove a VW beetle. He removed the front passenger seat and left it in his basement. His 20/12/16 Gretsch set would just fit.

On the other hand: Purdie tells about his early days in NYC going to studio gigs on city buses. He used a 22 bass, and he would load his drums into the rear door of the bus. I guess he had a friendly relationship with drivers. But I can't imagine hauling my drums around on a city bus!