Why hasn’t Paiste recreated the SCDR?

JDA

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20" dark Crash SC were rare ..back then even moreso today.
One thought all the SCDR and SC talk brings to mind in this 2021 is it now, is.

Out-of-the-box sounds and playing is ok.
Sometimes we travel the beaten path and forget

My Favorites were the 20s. I never had a 22.
20 Dark Medium two rivets was my sweetie. 20 Dark Ride, 20 Mellow, a 20 Bright Medium I even had for awhile..
18 Dark Crash, 18 Dark China, 14 Dark Heavy Hi Hats and 1 Dark Heavy SE bottom

then I dropped out..towards the end I was mixing signature hi hats and crashes with the Dark Medium.
I remember I used to say of the 14" SC Dark Heavy Hats

"Sound like Mel Lewis Istanbul Hi Hats.
If Mel Lewis was 6' 7" and 240 lbs".
 
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Old PIT Guy

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There is literally NO MYSTERY as to why the Paiste cymbal company stopped selling Sound Creation Dark Rides.

Paiste stopped selling all 602 alloy series and cymbals officially in 1993 because the foundry they used shut down due to economic circumstances. Paiste lost their supplier for this alloy and then decided to do the whole signature alloy (cheaper) pivot for a minute until 2011 when they got someone else to produce B20 for them.
I’ll take your word on alloy availability since I didn’t follow supplier issues with instrument makers back then any more than I do now.

But I have to assume Paiste knew the alloy formulas for their own lines of cymbals, and it seems to me at some point in this 17 year B20 hiatus they could've found another supplier if those lines were lucrative enough to be important to the company's survival.

And so it still seems like at least somewhat a business decision based on that product's viability and their confidence in other lines to focus production in elsewhere. Anecdotally, I didn’t know or see anyone at a school with 100 drummers packed into a small space who played a SCDR. Doesn’t mean there wasn’t, just that I didn’t see them. And I was there 10 hours a day for 3 years. I saw a lot of Zildjian and Sabian, very little Paiste and nothing from the sound creation line. That doesn’t exactly speak to a popularity worthy of perseverance. To me, anyway.
 

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I’ve had 3 of the 22” SCDR over the years. One was a wild cymbal with a very esoteric sound. It was fun to play and reminded me of some old k’s I’ve played. The other 2 were more balanced/mellow. I kept the one that sounded most in tune with itself and it has become my favourite ride cymbal.

When I want something a little brighter I use the 22” 602 blue label heavy which is the machine hammered version of (I assume) the same blank.

A surprising cymbal from the range is the 20” dark crash which is actually a great ride cymbal!
I have both 602 Dark and SC Dark plus a 602 Heavy all in 22". Only difference I see between them is the hammering. Weight, Bell, Profile are virtually identical. The 602 Heavy is not any more "machine hammered" than any other 602 or Sound Creation. Same process, only different hammer heads.
One thing is unique to the Sound Creation series though: after the flat and circular blanks arrive in Nottwil, they all pass through the tempering oven to release and even out the tension in the blanks. This is the same for all professional Paiste lines. The Sound Creations were tempered twice unlike any other line. Not sure if this second tempering alone has an effect on the sound or whether it was done to allow for the extremely heavy hammering found on all SC cymbals.
I also don't know if the 602 Dark got tempered twice. There is a considerable difference in sound between the 602 Dark and the later SC Dark. The 602 is heavier and feels a bit stiffer under the stick. Great cymbal but I prefer the SC Dark.
The 602 Heavy is sublime. Everything 602 that has Heavy in its name is IMO
 
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TPC

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A good alternative to the SCDR is the Signature Rough Ride. It has a lot of the same sonic qualities as the Sound Creation but doesn’t have that clang. At least not to my ears anyway.
This thread prompted me to set up the SCDR along side the Rough last night and do a side by side. I played them and had my buddy play them while I listened from across the room. The results were somewhat surprising.

The SCDR generally had a much lower pitch (the floor was literally shaking while it was being played). From behind the set the sound of the SCDR seemed huge, but out front it seemed almost mellow. The rush of sound at close range was imposing, but because so much of the sound was subsonic, the hugeness didn’t project to the ears across the room. The shaking floor was readily apparent across the room, though.

The Rough on the other hand had tons of midrange tones. And unlike the SC, the huge wall of sound did translate across the room as a roar of mid’s.

Played gently, there were a lot of similarities. Once the meat of the cymbal was activated, however, they sounded very different from across the room.
 

JDA

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A good alternative to the SCDR is the Signature Rough Ride. It has a lot of the same sonic qualities as the Sound Creation but doesn’t have that clang. At least not to my ears anyway.
Dark Medium 22 AK Zildjian is sort of a Sound Creation Dark Ride animal..(mine : 3013 dark Grams)
New Stamp 22" Old K around 2877g.

any 22" medium heavy weight you can side stick.. and you'll have similarities, Can probably add the Sabian HH Liquid Chester Ride.
 
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michiganice91

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Anecdotally, I didn’t know or see anyone at a school with 100 drummers packed into a small space who played a SCDR. Doesn’t mean there wasn’t, just that I didn’t see them. And I was there 10 hours a day for 3 years. I saw a lot of Zildjian and Sabian, very little Paiste and nothing from the sound creation line. That doesn’t exactly speak to a popularity worthy of perseverance. To me, anyway.
It's sort of like how you don't see drivers ed classes training new drivers in Lamborghinis.....its very expensive and impractical from an economic standpoint.
 

JDA

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add the Mehmet TW Jazz Rock 22" to this elite list

 

JDA

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So anyone ever recall a 24" Sound Creation Dark Ride
24"
 

Bri6366

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And apparently to Paiste there does not seem to be a market for them. While they are highly collectable the demand is probably quite small compared to other models in their line.

But I'll be if you placed an order for a few thousand of them they would build them for you
This. Whatever it is....if Paiste thought they would get the desired return on investment, they would bring it back.
 

ConvertedLudwigPlayer

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I believe/have hunch/ Sound Creation the term the name was used on a series of gongs .....well before the cymbals; I used to have a great old gong black and white Paiste-- gong catalog--- that had the Body Parts each individual gong 'affected...yep even the sex organs..
I had a Paiste Sound Creation Gong. If I had known it worked on body parts I would have kept it
 
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JDA

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I had a Paiste Sound Creation Gong. If I had known it worked on body parts I would have kept it
I must have sold it or it's buried in one of my stacks....the Paiste gong Catalog (book) (white cover 8.5 X 12) full size) I had. there was a Picture of the human body- with lines drawn towards the organs- and the .... well you get the picture
 

AtlantaDrumGuy

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Sound Creation rides were a regular topic at Cymbalholic. I’ve never played one in person, but I generally like what I hear. I like it...not sure what the issue is, but my impression is that guys would often buy one, then sell it later. Then buy another later. And it would be this back and forth thing.

It was never intended to be an all purpose wedding ride, if you know what I mean. If ya don’t like it, play a Zildjian ;)
 

multijd

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I suspect that the hammering pattern is very difficult to get right at production speed. I've always suspected that the high failure rate was due to that issue.

Matt
I would like to understand this more. If it’s not too much trouble could you explain this further?
 

multijd

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Sound Creation rides were a regular topic at Cymbalholic. I’ve never played one in person, but I generally like what I hear. I like it...not sure what the issue is, but my impression is that guys would often buy one, then sell it later. Then buy another later. And it would be this back and forth thing.

It was never intended to be an all purpose wedding ride, if you know what I mean. If ya don’t like it, play a Zildjian ;)
”all purpose wedding ride sounds” like a line from a Frank Zappa tune. Nice!
 


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