Why so few Paiste Signature 22" Rides out there?

Treviso1

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What's the deal with Paiste and their focus on 20" rides as opposed to 22" rides? Why so few Paiste Signature 22" Ride cymbals out there? They have scaled down their Signature Ride cymbal line to the point that there are no models that even remotely interest me. I am not interested in colorsound cymbals like the Danny Carey model, but I do have an old 22" Dry Heavy from 1996 that I really love and frankly, I am stunned that they just don't make them like that anymore. Also, what is the deal with the Precision Signature line? Are they cheaper and who currently plays them? When I was away from 2007 through 2015-ish...they dumped all of my favorite cymbals. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
 

slinginit

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I can't tell you who plays Sig Precision, but they are less expensive and loud as fcuk!!!!!! Sigs are hammered and lathed twice; Sig Precisions go through this process once. I personally don't thing they're functional for anything less than medium-loud to extreme. Maybe the regular rides or hats might have a slightly lower dynamic.

Was hoping they would be a resurgence of the Sound Formula which were interesting cymbals.
 

Treviso1

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slinginit said:
I can't tell you who plays Sig Precision, but they are less expensive and loud as fcuk!!!!!! Sigs are hammered and lathed twice; Sig Precisions go through this process once. I personally don't thing they're functional for anything less than medium-loud to extreme. Maybe the regular rides or hats might have a slightly lower dynamic.

Was hoping they would be a resurgence of the Sound Formula which were interesting cymbals.
I really liked the Sound Formula crashes. To my ears, I liked them a little better than the Signature crashes. I have 3-4 of them from the mid-late 90s. All in all though, I really love(d) the entire Signature line and they are what won me over in the early 90s and brought about my conversion to Paiste-ism.
 

slinginit

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Paiste says the Sig Precision captures the spirit of the Sig sound in a more affordable price range. However, they lack a lot of nuance, balance, and dynamic range of the Sigs IMHO. I still have my 1st-gen Sound Formulas which I also liked better than the Sigs. Now the Sig Full crash in 20" is its own beast. That's quite an instrument.
 

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I have played a handful of the Signature Precision cymbals, I'm not impressed. The Sound Formula series did a much better job of being a "Signature-like" series at a lower price point. I'd go as far as to say some of the SF models sounded even better than the Sigs, especially the splashes.

Paiste seems to focus on the "latest & greatest" series (Masters, Big Beat 2002's, 602 Modern Essentials, etc.) and doesn't give much thought to the older series anymore. It's not just the Signatures, it's the 2002's, Rudes, etc. You'd think that with the interest in larger cymbals over the last 10 years they'd have kept or expanded some of their already established series/models.
 

Treviso1

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I feel the same way... That Paiste has abandoned the tried and true cymbals of yesterday. Now, I'm happy with the reissue 602s and the Modern Essentials, but wish that they would bring in more models (Heavy Hi Hats and Heavy Rides) and odd sizes (17" & 19") to the Classic line. Cut out some of the junk... But sadly, that's probably where the profit margin lies.
 

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I own a 21" Signature Full Ride, that was made a bit darker for an endorsee. It, to me, is the perfect all round ride that I have ever played. Keeper. ;-)
 

michiganice91

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I also prefer larger ride cymbals 22" and up. I played a signature blue bell ride for many years and it definitely doesn't have the same dryness to it as the old colorsounds. Thats a fantastic ride for sure. Also the powerslaves seem to be pretty common if you dont mind reflector finish and iron maiden logos.

I currently have a 22" sig dark energy mark II ride and that thing sounds freaking amazing if you can find one. Most of the fancy ride models seemed to have moved to the masters line. But yeah it looks like paiste got rid of a ton of the signature ride models so you're probably stuck looking for NOS if you want those sadly.
 

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Mendozart said:
I own a 21" Signature Full Ride, that was made a bit darker for an endorsee. It, to me, is the perfect all round ride that I have ever played. Keeper. :wink:
There are a lot of Paistes like that. One that comes to mind is my old Signature Dark Full Ride. That is one that shouldn't have ever been discontinued. It's got the perfect blend of wash, ping, and a nice large bell. Never harsh sounding, it is crushable...just an ultimate ride cymbal.
 

slinginit

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mgdrummer said:
I have played a handful of the Signature Precision cymbals, I'm not impressed. The Sound Formula series did a much better job of being a "Signature-like" series at a lower price point. I'd go as far as to say some of the SF models sounded even better than the Sigs, especially the splashes.

Paiste seems to focus on the "latest & greatest" series (Masters, Big Beat 2002's, 602 Modern Essentials, etc.) and doesn't give much thought to the older series anymore. It's not just the Signatures, it's the 2002's, Rudes, etc. You'd think that with the interest in larger cymbals over the last 10 years they'd have kept or expanded some of their already established series/models.
This is an interesting comment. Although I commend their resurgence of 602 and encompassing GB, 2002, 2002 BB, and RUDEs under the "2oo2 Alloy" umbrella, I question the existential purpose of the 900s and PST-8. Who plays PST-8 anyway? Are there that many niche markets for pro- and semi-pro B8 cymbals? I commend the diversity of choices on the market today (we should be so lucky) but with Meinl and their many offerings in B8, B10, B12, plus Paiste's, I'm surprised some of these are still sticking around.

It almost seems that the 900, 900-CS, PST-8, and PST-X should all fit under their own umbrella. PST-8 looks like a brilliant version of the 900s, the regular 900s are large-peen hammered cymbals with a dirty-patina chemical wash, the CS are self-explanatory, and the PST-X are the effects branch. Some of the PST-8 cajon / percussion models could be subsumed into PST-X in my opinion.

I see them going the same route of the 80s where there were so many numbered series that it confused drummers (505, 1000, 2000 (no more 2002), 3000, RUDE 1000 - 3000, etc.).
 

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The cymbal market has moved in a few directions. First, there is a demand for the boutique cymbal in traditional Turkish bronze. There there is the demand for bigger, thinner cymbals. The demand for bigger/thinner corresponds with the retro craze where everything old is new again. With the popularity of the 602's, Giant Beats, Masters, etc., Paiste has scaled back it's Signature line. The demand for a 22" Sig Power Ride just isn't there and Paiste has their best people making the Masters cymbals now.
 

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Bri6366 said:
The cymbal market has moved in a few directions. First, there is a demand for the boutique cymbal in traditional Turkish bronze. There there is the demand for bigger, thinner cymbals. The demand for bigger/thinner corresponds with the retro craze where everything old is new again. With the popularity of the 602's, Giant Beats, Masters, etc., Paiste has scaled back it's Signature line. The demand for a 22" Sig Power Ride just isn't there and Paiste has their best people making the Masters cymbals now.
Sure, but they really haven't developed the 602 line like they should either. There should be more sizes available and some old models have never returned. Many players go nuts for the "Medium" 602, not the "Medium Ride" 602...bring back that model, develop the line so that you don't have any holes or missing gaps and then drummers will buy them. I just think they have too many lines that crossover in too many spots.

Frankly, I am surprised that with this craze for larger, thinner cymbals that the Paiste Giant Beats aren't more ubiquitous. I just don't see that many drummers playing Giant Beats and you would be hard pressed to find sweeter sounding cymbals.
 

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Treviso1 said:
Frankly, I am surprised that with this craze for larger, thinner cymbals that the Paiste Giant Beats aren't more ubiquitous. I just don't see that many drummers playing Giant Beats and you would be hard pressed to find sweeter sounding cymbals.
That and the 2002 Big Beats that are basically Modern Essentials in B8. Both are really sweet sounding lines.
 

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Treviso1 said:
What's the deal with Paiste and their focus on 20" rides as opposed to 22" rides? Why so few Paiste Signature 22" Ride cymbals out there? They have scaled down their Signature Ride cymbal line to the point that there are no models that even remotely interest me. I am not interested in colorsound cymbals like the Danny Carey model, but I do have an old 22" Dry Heavy from 1996 that I really love and frankly, I am stunned that they just don't make them like that anymore. Also, what is the deal with the Precision Signature line? Are they cheaper and who currently plays them? When I was away from 2007 through 2015-ish...they dumped all of my favorite cymbals. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
I swear I wrote this! (My sentiments exactly). I also took a hiatus from playing drums somewhere between 2007-2017! Imagine to my surprise when I found out that all the sig fulls and sig sound edge hats I wanted have been discontinued. I had partially started the set and now, that's it. I even asked to get some made through special order and they said they wouldn't do it.

Best solution for you is to get them second hand. As for me, I'm still not sure which direction to take as I'm not in the US and getting them second had is bit more of a challenge. I have found different cymbal lines which may be better... not sure.
 

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Balance said:
What's the deal with Paiste and their focus on 20" rides as opposed to 22" rides? Why so few Paiste Signature 22" Ride cymbals out there? They have scaled down their Signature Ride cymbal line to the point that there are no models that even remotely interest me. I am not interested in colorsound cymbals like the Danny Carey model, but I do have an old 22" Dry Heavy from 1996 that I really love and frankly, I am stunned that they just don't make them like that anymore. Also, what is the deal with the Precision Signature line? Are they cheaper and who currently plays them? When I was away from 2007 through 2015-ish...they dumped all of my favorite cymbals. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
I swear I wrote this! (My sentiments exactly). I also took a hiatus from playing drums somewhere between 2007-2017! Imagine to my surprise when I found out that all the sig fulls and sig sound edge hats I wanted have been discontinued. I had partially started the set and now, that's it. I even asked to get some made through special order and they said they wouldn't do it.

Best solution for you is to get them second hand. As for me, I'm still not sure which direction to take as I'm not in the US and getting them second had is bit more of a challenge. I have found different cymbal lines which may be better... not sure.
I left playing professionally and everyone was playing heavy rides, with a strong ping and a little wash underneath it and I returned about 10 years later to find no one playing a pingy ride and everyone playing these dark, trashy, thin, bendy, washy garbage can lids! (just kidding, but you get the point) :) What happened?
 

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Treviso1 said:
The cymbal market has moved in a few directions. First, there is a demand for the boutique cymbal in traditional Turkish bronze. There there is the demand for bigger, thinner cymbals. The demand for bigger/thinner corresponds with the retro craze where everything old is new again. With the popularity of the 602's, Giant Beats, Masters, etc., Paiste has scaled back it's Signature line. The demand for a 22" Sig Power Ride just isn't there and Paiste has their best people making the Masters cymbals now.
Sure, but they really haven't developed the 602 line like they should either. There should be more sizes available and some old models have never returned. Many players go nuts for the "Medium" 602, not the "Medium Ride" 602...bring back that model, develop the line so that you don't have any holes or missing gaps and then drummers will buy them. I just think they have too many lines that crossover in too many spots.

Frankly, I am surprised that with this craze for larger, thinner cymbals that the Paiste Giant Beats aren't more ubiquitous. I just don't see that many drummers playing Giant Beats and you would be hard pressed to find sweeter sounding cymbals.
Along with the trend of bigger/thinner are also darker and lower pitched. Instead of reintroducing older 602 models with that characteristic glassy sound, Paiste opted to introduce the Modern Essentials. I'm sure it was something Paiste artists were clamoring for.

I agree on the Giant Beats. I don't own any myself, but they are really cool cymbals. As Slinginit points out above Paiste has so many models and it is more confusing than the old 505, 2002 or 2000, 3000 series.
 

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I own a 22" and a 21" Signature ride and it took me some serious time, $$ and a painful trade to get them. Paiste is a confusing company who's supply side does not seemingly correlate to demand. For instance, there is a significant demand for 15" Dark Energy and 15" RUDE Sound Edge Hats so why discontinue them then refuse to make them special order? The Innovations is one of the best sounding line of Paiste's I've ever played, most of my Past friends agree yet it was both extremely limited in available sizes and discontinued. To a degree the same can be said for the Dimensions line which are great cymbals.

I have seen an increased interest in 15" hats and 22" rides lately. For the longest time it really was a fringe thing now it appears they are in demand everywhere in the Paiste world. I am curios to see if Paiste respond to this on the supply side.

I am in complete agreement with slinginit, the precision line is loud as fcuk. Ridiculously so. There is just no way to balance them with a kit unless it is controlled by a sound man. I have said this before but I took my Signatures to a show one time and half way through the guitarist turned to me and said: "What is up with your cymbals? They are way too loud". Signatures are very loud cymbals and Precisions even more so.
 

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slinginit said:
I have played a handful of the Signature Precision cymbals, I'm not impressed. The Sound Formula series did a much better job of being a "Signature-like" series at a lower price point. I'd go as far as to say some of the SF models sounded even better than the Sigs, especially the splashes.

Paiste seems to focus on the "latest & greatest" series (Masters, Big Beat 2002's, 602 Modern Essentials, etc.) and doesn't give much thought to the older series anymore. It's not just the Signatures, it's the 2002's, Rudes, etc. You'd think that with the interest in larger cymbals over the last 10 years they'd have kept or expanded some of their already established series/models.
This is an interesting comment. Although I commend their resurgence of 602 and encompassing GB, 2002, 2002 BB, and RUDEs under the "2oo2 Alloy" umbrella, I question the existential purpose of the 900s and PST-8. Who plays PST-8 anyway? Are there that many niche markets for pro- and semi-pro B8 cymbals? I commend the diversity of choices on the market today (we should be so lucky) but with Meinl and their many offerings in B8, B10, B12, plus Paiste's, I'm surprised some of these are still sticking around.

It almost seems that the 900, 900-CS, PST-8, and PST-X should all fit under their own umbrella. PST-8 looks like a brilliant version of the 900s, the regular 900s are large-peen hammered cymbals with a dirty-patina chemical wash, the CS are self-explanatory, and the PST-X are the effects branch. Some of the PST-8 cajon / percussion models could be subsumed into PST-X in my opinion.

I see them going the same route of the 80s where there were so many numbered series that it confused drummers (505, 1000, 2000 (no more 2002), 3000, RUDE 1000 - 3000, etc.).
When I worked in music retail in the mid-late 90's Paiste was already notorious for over saturating their bottom tier cymbals. Back then you had the 302's, 402's, 502's, 802's and Alpha. Five lines of various degrees of "less than professional". Now, it's the 201, PST3, PST5, PST7, PST8, and the 900's. As someone who started on the very first Alphas (made in West Germany, 1991/92) I was a little sad to see that line finally fall off the roster, but it makes sense. The 900's are the new Alpha. I would like to see the sales numbers for the other four series. I have a hard time believing that they make that much $$$ off of those other 4 lines to justify each of their existence.

It makes sense to me to keep the PSTX line as it's own thing. Those are truly specialty cymbals that fill the need for "noise" without the $$$ price tag.

With the trend for darker/trashier/lower pitch/warmer/"complex" cymbal sounds and seeing how badly gutted the Signature line has become over the last 5-10 years I'm almost concerned that the Signature line may end up going away completely at some point. The 2002 series is their staple "rock" cymbal, most pros in the rock/metal scene who play Signatures today probably played the 2002's and RUDE's back in the day so they have those lines to fall back on (they're "retro"!). As shallow as it is to chase after the artists who are on the Top 40 charts, I'd venture to guess most of the current high profile Paiste artists probably aren't playing the Signatures so they have a lack of visibility for that series.

Just thinking out loud...
 

michiganice91

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Are you sure the 900's replaced the alphas? I thought it was the PST8 line that replaced them maybe? I agree I have no clue why they shut down the alpha line as I thought it had a lot of brand recognition in the industry.

I get introducing the 900 colorsounds, but for the life of me as a Paiste fan I don't get the standard 900's. IMO they look extremely hideous and sound rather average. As a paiste-holic that was pretty disappointing to see.
 

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