Why the intense dislike of certain things drum related? (FORMERLY: Why the hate?)

SpinaDude

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The thread on "unpopular Opinions" has been a lot of fun to read. There's a lot of things I'm hearing that you guys don't like, whether it's about a particular drummer, setups or manufacturers. Not too many people get into the WHY though. If you hate the 8" tom, why? How is it offending you? If you can't stand Bonham, why? What about his style rubs you the wrong way? Manufacturers -- this is the big one. A lot of Yamaha, DW, Mapex and Ludwig hate going on -- a little Pearl to I think -- so what history do you have with these brands that makes you hate them so much? I'm not looking for arguments from anyone or between anyone. I'm looking to learn from your experiences and thought processes.
 

jansara

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"hate" is a strong word. Looking over the posts I think I saw it once, partly in jest. Not liking some things (or someone) doesn't mean you hate them. I have no use for Hard Rock/Heavy Metal drums. Flat out hammering and bashing drums bores me, always has. I find no musicality in it. Therefore, I have no use for Bonham....neither for Moon and Peart, for that matter.
 

Mcjnic

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It's never about "hate" ...

We are drummers ... artists. We have tools that feel "right" ... and we have tools that just don't work. Like any artistic endeavor ... you have to have the correct ingredients.

Anyway ... I'm only speaking for myself ... and my toaster.
 

Nacci

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Personally; I like to pass judgement, pick sides and destroy my enemy Tzu style.

I also like people who take that predilection in stride.

This business about Bonham is pure nonsense though. This was a man who was self taught, who listened to records to learn, no YouTube instructional videos. grew up in post WWII hard knock England and developed the most soulful, powerful, dynamic feels of all the drummers from England in that era.
 

Old Drummer

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Yeah, hate is a strong word, but I've developed a strong dislike for showoff drummers--especially when they don't have much to show off.

There's a drummer who occasionally comes to the weekly jams I usually attend who thinks he's the cat's pajamas. He doesn't bother to put his name on the players' list, since he thinks he's too good for that, but insists to his buddy coordinating the players that he play first, or as soon as he arrives (if he arrives late, which he often does) Then when he plays, he's so busy that he's darn near soloing through every verse. Eventually the band relents and gives him a solo, but it's the same crap he's played during the songs, ruining them. Insult is added to injury by the fact that he brings friends with him who cheer for his excesses.

I've unfortunately listened to this guy enough to suspect that he might be a decent drummer if he just toned it down, but I don't know that because he overplays everything. It's like a personality problem, and it grates on me.

As for Bonham, I guess it does bother me the way he's idolized. For sure he was a very good drummer, and I respect him enormously, but I've never especially liked his style (or Led Zeppelin for that matter). It disturbs me that a generation or two of kids have grown up believing that Bonham was the greatest. Not really. There are other good drummers who the kids should take as role models too.

Hey, maybe the showoff drummer aspires to be the next Bonham? That would explain why he overplays everything, albeit with nowhere near the skill that Bonham had.
 

Fat Drummer

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I hear what your saying... Ive seen this hostility trend brewing here for a while now (much like the political divide that has firmly rooted itself into our contemporary culture), but seriously, I pretty much like all gear, brands and stuff out there... it's all just tools of our trade, simply use the tools you need and fits your preference. My problem is not equipment... it's DRUMMERS! Drummers who are so busy espousing their deeply held personal opinions that they don't even engage in the actual conversation at hand... they just want to make sure their opinion is accepted as the absolute fact and they move on. Often it is not even relevant to the orgional posters comment or question! Something about that really bothers me.

For example, someone says they like this or that... and 20 guys chime in to say they are an idiot because it's not the way THEY would do it or what THEY like... What? What happened to an open, honest exchange of ideas and conversation. I like drums and drummers... I don't have to agree with every idea and concept, but I respect that it is their idea and I still enjoy the conversation. I'm no saint and my ideas have absolutely no more weight or value than the next drummer.... its just my preferences. We all have them and they are all fine.

But lets walk back from this, dare I say self righteous playground bully attitude we are developing and start enjoying our time together talking about drums and drummers. We don't have to agree on anything, it fact it would be boring if we did... but let's not loose sight of the joy this instrument brings to each of us in our own different ways.

Just my rant for the night!
W
 

Mongrel

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Wow....

Bonham “overplaying” and “showoff” in the same paragraph? Lol

I honestly have not heard one Zep tune where John Bonham, showing off and overplaying came to mind. Not one.

Honestly Part II

I think I am finally old enough that I have not need to “hate” anything connected to drums or drummers. Like anyone else I may not care for certain makers-music or equipment, but hate? Nah.

Honestly Part III

The closest I come to “hate” in a musical context is deep level disdain for music that promotes, makes fun of, or celebrates the dark side of human existence. You want to sing about killing babies or cops, rape and torture women and children, and mimic demons with your vocals?

Well....I can find some hate for you there.
 

SpinaDude

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Okay, maybe hate was too strong a word. I wasn't expecting that. LOL But I think you know what I'm looking to learn by the way the post was written.

What about manufacturers? Are there manufacturers that you dislike for a reason? Especially ones that have left you down with their shoddy construction or poor QC?

I had a Ludwig bronze snare in the 80's Awful drum. I believe now when I remember what it was like to seat the heads, that it may have been out of round. The internal muffler was always falling apart. The lugs would loosen while I was playing and fall out onto the floor everyday. So it was forever out of tune. To this day I won;t even look at a Ludwig drum. With the issues I mentioned on a Gretsch kit in a different thread, I'd be shocked if i ever bought a Gretsch drum.
 

MntnMan62

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Yeah, hate is a strong word, but I've developed a strong dislike for showoff drummers--especially when they don't have much to show off.

There's a drummer who occasionally comes to the weekly jams I usually attend who thinks he's the cat's pajamas. He doesn't bother to put his name on the players' list, since he thinks he's too good for that, but insists to his buddy coordinating the players that he play first, or as soon as he arrives (if he arrives late, which he often does) Then when he plays, he's so busy that he's darn near soloing through every verse. Eventually the band relents and gives him a solo, but it's the same crap he's played during the songs, ruining them. Insult is added to injury by the fact that he brings friends with him who cheer for his excesses.

I've unfortunately listened to this guy enough to suspect that he might be a decent drummer if he just toned it down, but I don't know that because he overplays everything. It's like a personality problem, and it grates on me.

As for Bonham, I guess it does bother me the way he's idolized. For sure he was a very good drummer, and I respect him enormously, but I've never especially liked his style (or Led Zeppelin for that matter). It disturbs me that a generation or two of kids have grown up believing that Bonham was the greatest. Not really. There are other good drummers who the kids should take as role models too.

Hey, maybe the showoff drummer aspires to be the next Bonham? That would explain why he overplays everything, albeit with nowhere near the skill that Bonham had.
Your take on Bonham is interesting. Many drummers or musicians are idolized, not because they are considered the best even when compared against more recent artists, but because they were the first to do what they did. Pioneers. I may not revere him in the way many people do but I can say that what I really like about him is that his playing is far from the "bash as hard as I can" school. His playing embodies a ton of subtlety. Lots of ghost notes and a feel that makes the tunes groove like nothing else from that era. It's obvious that jazz factored pretty heavily in his upbringing. No one is asking you to idolize him or put him on a pedestal. But appreciate his playing for both the time he was doing it and for how he applied his own style to the type of music he was playing. I don't hold it against anyone if they idolize the guy. In some ways, he deserves it. And Bonham was hardly a showoff drummer. Sure, there are the long solos. But that was what the music called for. And he was able to pull them off. But I'd never call him a showoff. Some of his playing was quite reserved actually. Oh well. At least you ended your post acknowledging "the skill" that he had.
 

thin shell

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Wow....

Bonham “overplaying” and “showoff” in the same paragraph? Lol

I honestly have not heard one Zep tune where John Bonham, showing off and overplaying came to mind. Not one.

Honestly Part II

I think I am finally old enough that I have not need to “hate” anything connected to drums or drummers. Like anyone else I may not care for certain makers-music or equipment, but hate? Nah.
Bohman plays drums on the Paul McCartney song, Beware My Love and the drumming is far too busy IMO. It just isn't a good fit. Bonham was great in the context of Led Zeppelin. I don't know how great he would have been in a band with a different style of music. Much like Charlie Watts is perfect for the Stones but wouldn't be in other bands that require busier playing.
 
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thin shell

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Yeah, hate is a strong word, but I've developed a strong dislike for showoff drummers--especially when they don't have much to show off.

There's a drummer who occasionally comes to the weekly jams I usually attend who thinks he's the cat's pajamas. He doesn't bother to put his name on the players' list, since he thinks he's too good for that, but insists to his buddy coordinating the players that he play first, or as soon as he arrives (if he arrives late, which he often does) Then when he plays, he's so busy that he's darn near soloing through every verse. Eventually the band relents and gives him a solo, but it's the same crap he's played during the songs, ruining them. Insult is added to injury by the fact that he brings friends with him who cheer for his excesses.

I've unfortunately listened to this guy enough to suspect that he might be a decent drummer if he just toned it down, but I don't know that because he overplays everything. It's like a personality problem, and it grates on me.

As for Bonham, I guess it does bother me the way he's idolized. For sure he was a very good drummer, and I respect him enormously, but I've never especially liked his style (or Led Zeppelin for that matter). It disturbs me that a generation or two of kids have grown up believing that Bonham was the greatest. Not really. There are other good drummers who the kids should take as role models too.

Hey, maybe the showoff drummer aspires to be the next Bonham? That would explain why he overplays everything, albeit with nowhere near the skill that Bonham had.
Sounds like, and no offense meant, Todd Sucherman with Styx. Someone posted a video of him playing at a Styx concert a while back and all you could really hear was him. The camera was right behind him and at first I thought, Oh this is an interesting drum solo. It was very busy and technical. After watching it for a few minutes I noticed that you could see and hear the rest of the band and they were playing Come Sail Away or something like that. The guy is a great player with tons of technique but it seems like sometimes players like that don't ask themselves: I can fit all of this extra complicated stuff in there, but should I? I can't stand when musicians over play their parts. They came to town not too long ago and my wife asked if we should get tickets and I explained why I wouldn't be interested. She agreed and we didn't go.
 

funkypoodle

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I don't dislike Bonham's drumming per se. He's solid. I guess what bores me is peoples lack of interest for so many of the great lesser known players/bands of the era. It's as if there was only Buddy, then Bonham, then Peart. I always root for the underdogs. I'd rather have geeky conversations about Dannie Richmond & Earl Palmer, learn more about Woody Woodmansey & Lee Smith, listen to lesser known cuts by Blue Cheer or the 13th Floor Elevators. Variety is the spice of life.

As for drum manufacturers, any of the big ones have made great drums, sometimes shoddy ones (especially on Monday mornings & Friday afternoons). They've all made bad business decisions at some point, come up with design flaws of epic proportion along the line or their names ended up in someone else's hands. But since you want to really know what sticks in my craw, it's poorly executed tom mounts, Gretsch & Premier being my absolute least favourite to fight with. Rogers Swivomatic & subsequent Yamaha modern copy are the ones I dislike the least.

I reserve my hate for the stuff we can't talk about on here. I crossed that line once a few years ago and had a few private conversations with Admin (bless your hearts) & a few members. Won't do that again!
 

Elvis

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I don't know....Dislike is such an....Intense word....do we REALLY "dislike" certain drum related items?

(sorry, couldn't help myself. Just kidding. :icon_lol: :tongue3: ;) )
 

Houndog

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I said I hated Yamaha drums , To me they have no style and that font they use for logos just gets under my skin , I don’t actually hate them but I do . Get it . I just don’t like their look , never seen a Mapex kit I’ve liked either . Do the drums sound great , yes . Call me a fool but I just can’t help having to have it asthetical to me as well .
 


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