Why the intense dislike of certain things drum related? (FORMERLY: Why the hate?)

RIDDIM

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Yeah, hate is a strong word, but I've developed a strong dislike for showoff drummers--especially when they don't have much to show off.

There's a drummer who occasionally comes to the weekly jams I usually attend who thinks he's the cat's pajamas. He doesn't bother to put his name on the players' list, since he thinks he's too good for that, but insists to his buddy coordinating the players that he play first, or as soon as he arrives (if he arrives late, which he often does) Then when he plays, he's so busy that he's darn near soloing through every verse. Eventually the band relents and gives him a solo, but it's the same crap he's played during the songs, ruining them. Insult is added to injury by the fact that he brings friends with him who cheer for his excesses.

I've unfortunately listened to this guy enough to suspect that he might be a decent drummer if he just toned it down, but I don't know that because he overplays everything. It's like a personality problem, and it grates on me.

As for Bonham, I guess it does bother me the way he's idolized. For sure he was a very good drummer, and I respect him enormously, but I've never especially liked his style (or Led Zeppelin for that matter). It disturbs me that a generation or two of kids have grown up believing that Bonham was the greatest. Not really. There are other good drummers who the kids should take as role models too.

Hey, maybe the showoff drummer aspires to be the next Bonham? That would explain why he overplays everything, albeit with nowhere near the skill that Bonham had.
- Bonham could be loud, but what he played fit the tunes and the band. If he didn't fit, he'd have been gone.

He had a great pocket too. I'm not so sure offs aspire to playing a great pocket.
 

JDA

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He didn't Just Fit the Tunes he helped Create the tunes. I was a beginning drummer when he and Zep landed. His drums his drumming was As Large as the Guitar part. As Large as the Vocal Part. The Bass part. The Overdubbing part. Nothing was Larger and He was Equal To any of it.

Nothing like that ever happened before from any of the bands- Deep Purple- any of the music that was on at the time. Bonham's Drums were as large as any other part of the music-- in that band.

I sometimes wonder If it had to do with the how it was recorded. If it was- no other group recorded the drums- that way. There was a recording Ambiance that Led Zeppelin had. Add the stripped down Blues-nature of it whereas no blues trio was Recorded to sound like that (Hendrix trio maybe but they didn't last) Led Zep appeared larger-in a way never heard before

And then even it you take away the way he/it was recorded as the Why he sounded so large and just concentrate on 'the notes'. His 'notes' were impeccable, too.

So you have fantastically strong and very precise drummer, recorded As Large as The Guitars, Vocals, overdubs, keyboards, Vocal harmonies.. and You have an event that stays with a drummer when exposed to that.

All these years later (from 69-70-71..) Part of it was the Recording.
Part of it was his precision and strength.

He didn't just 'fit' the 'music' (He owned it) He had and used the freedom He was as large as any other component of it.
That's why he's still held in such awe by many. he didn't "sound" like other "normal" drummers doing, at the time, sometimes similar things.

But there's a word of caution here. No one then No one Now, will find themselves in a similar situation So, you better take what you can from him, and move along Don't stay- back-in there in 1971. Take the things you can and move on. Move it along. It was a moment that occurred Then not now.
 
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Bandit

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Sounds like, and no offense meant, Todd Sucherman with Styx. Someone posted a video of him playing at a Styx concert a while back and all you could really hear was him. The camera was right behind him and at first I thought, Oh this is an interesting drum solo. It was very busy and technical. After watching it for a few minutes I noticed that you could see and hear the rest of the band and they were playing Come Sail Away or something like that. The guy is a great player with tons of technique but it seems like sometimes players like that don't ask themselves: I can fit all of this extra complicated stuff in there, but should I? I can't stand when musicians over play their parts. They came to town not too long ago and my wife asked if we should get tickets and I explained why I wouldn't be interested. She agreed and we didn't go.
Too bad. You missed a great concert, with a great drummer.
 

Bandit

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I said I hated Yamaha drums , To me they have no style and that font they use for logos just gets under my skin , I don’t actually hate them but I do . Get it . I just don’t like their look , never seen a Mapex kit I’ve liked either . Do the drums sound great , yes . Call me a fool but I just can’t help having to have it asthetical to me as well .
Wow, you don’t like any of my Mapex kits! :(
 

swarfrat

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It's simply chitchat. It's a lot easier to gripe and whine. It's what people do. If every post on here was a 2 page dissertation attempting to teach something, you'd think 'what a bunch of pompous arrogant jerks" instead of "what a bunch of whiners and hateful people"
 

SpinaDude

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I said I hated Yamaha drums , To me they have no style and that font they use for logos just gets under my skin , I don’t actually hate them but I do . Get it . I just don’t like their look , never seen a Mapex kit I’ve liked either . Do the drums sound great , yes . Call me a fool but I just can’t help having to have it asthetical to me as well .
I'm totally down with an aesthetic opinion like that. I love Yamaha drums. If I have room and $$$ for a second kit, I'm currently in love with their Hybrid Oak kits. But for my tastes, those are the only interesting finishes Yamaha has done in years. I also dislike their absolute lug system. I understand the design purpose, but I don't like how they look. I do like the finish on their hardware though. I think that's an interesting touch that sets it apart.

The Mapex one surprises me. I'm usually very hot on their finishes. I love the way their drums look. But I'm that way with Ludwig and getting that way with Gretsch too. A bad experience turns me off to them completely. Paiste...same thing for me.

I also am not a big fan of vintage kits. By vintage I'm going to say pre-60's, but there are a lot of drum sounds I dislike from the 70's as well. Those old school kits always look like thy're a step away from falling apart to me, with their toothpick hardware and super thin shells.

I'm not a huge fan of the four piece kits, which I'm sure also lends to my last point. To me it's limiting, why cut voices from your self-expression? I also feel very exposed. I want to be surrounded. I also want to know that wherever I reach an arm, I have something new to hit, a different voice to add...hopefully musically.
 

Vistalite Black

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Hate is positive. It should kindled like the coals you need to cook your dinner and brought to full potential like a 10-foot bonfire on a summer beach.

There's a deranged belief that we should push down hate and worship at the temple of positivity. Somehow when some jerk cuts us off in traffic, we're supposed to simply swallow the stress hormones that are released and tamp down our beating hearts and ignore that throbbing vein in our forehead.

It's far better to release the hate. Turn up the extreme music with the screaming vocals and howl inside your car with the burning intensity of a midday sun. Go chop some wood. Put some Twitter idiot in his place (after coming to a safe stop). Then return your home without the anger stress churning inside you. Be ready to embrace your wife and kiss your dog -- after you've turned off the internal argument of what exactly you could have said to your clueless boss about what he or she doesn't know about the TPS reports.

With that said, there's only two things I hate:

The wearing of hats indoors by bald drummers who would by better off allowing the heat of their internal engine to escape -- not be trapped under felt, wool or cotton.

The insane contention that most of the best drummers of all time were the products of just two continents during the years 1968-1978.

With that said, I look forward to more hate rants.

PS: People who don't appreciate Bonham probably aren't very satisfying lovers.
 

Mcjnic

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Hate is positive. It should kindled like the coals you need to cook your dinner and brought to full potential like a 10-foot bonfire on a summer beach.

There's a deranged belief that we should push down hate and worship at the temple of positivity. Somehow when some jerk cuts us off in traffic, we're supposed to simply swallow the stress hormones that are released and tamp down our beating hearts and ignore that throbbing vein in our forehead.

It's far better to release the hate. Turn up the extreme music with the screaming vocals and howl inside your car with the burning intensity of a midday sun. Go chop some wood. Put some Twitter idiot in his place (after coming to a safe stop). Then return your home without the anger stress churning inside you. Be ready to embrace your wife and kiss your dog -- after you've turned off the internal argument of what exactly you could have said to your clueless boss about what he or she doesn't know about the TPS reports.

With that said, there's only two things I hate:

The wearing of hats indoors by bald drummers who would by better off allowing the heat of their internal engine to escape -- not be trapped under felt, wool or cotton.

The insane contention that most of the best drummers of all time were the products of just two continents during the years 1968-1978.

With that said, I look forward to more hate rants.

PS: People who don't appreciate Bonham probably aren't very satisfying lovers.

I hate everything about this post.
 

BennyK

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The word hate may be conceptionalized , as a noun or a verb ; for the convenience of those with a limited grasp of vocabulary, as an adjective as well . To me it's important to understand from which context an individual is expressing themselves .

Strong and/or dissenting opinions become hate-ful when they cross the line from adverserial into personal hostility , at which point a healthy sense of humour may be one of the only ways to disentangle oneself from a pointless exchange .

How can an inanimate object made from wood plastic and steel be the object be the object of hatred ? Psychiatrists make a good living from this .

" Doctor last night I dreamt that I was a tee pee and the night before I dreamt that I was a wigwam "

mmmmmm .... " you're too tents "
 

thin shell

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I said I hated Yamaha drums , To me they have no style and that font they use for logos just gets under my skin , I don’t actually hate them but I do . Get it . I just don’t like their look , never seen a Mapex kit I’ve liked either . Do the drums sound great , yes . Call me a fool but I just can’t help having to have it asthetical to me as well .
Yamaha has never done it for me either and it is the aesthetics that is the problem for me. The drums are obviously well made and sound good but they just do nothing for me.

I am the same way with Pearl. Thousands of destroyed vintage kits because of their tom mounts being retrofitted not withstanding, they just strike me as generic.

I have a similar reaction to Mapex. The name is probably the worst name for a drum company ever. It just sounds cheap. Ridiculously ugly or overly complex mounting systems aside, they clearly make nice drums but they just feel very vanilla with a flashy finish and just do nothing for me.

I would like to like DW given their Camco and George Way heritage, but I just don't. I have an early delta 5000 double pedal that while smooth is very poorly made. The machining on the main casting where the bearings sit is very sloppy and has always had a clunk when I play that has only gotten worse over time. I have never been impressed with their hardware. It's overly beefy and heavy and the tilter on their cymbal stands has the worst design of any stand. Then there's John Good. He just rubs me the wrong way and as I said in the other thread, is a snake oil salesman in my opinion and the premium for their stuff just baffles me.

Having said all of that I can guarantee that I will get one defensive comment about my feelings on Mapex from a guy with a barn full of them and some DW fans. I don't care what someone plays. If it inspires them then great. I just don't happen to be inspired by those brands.
 

BennyK

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I hate it when you expect me to pretend you're not lying .
 

thin shell

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Too bad. You missed a great concert, with a great drummer.
A great drummer? Yes. A great band? Yes. I have never been a huge fan but liked them back in the day. Although I can't get to the tuning button fast enough with Babe comes on the radio. A great fit? Nope. Put him in a reformed Mahavishnu Orchestra or King Crimson then yes, he would be great in that setting but overplaying in a straight ahead 70's rock band? Nope.
 
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fun2drum

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When I read "hate" in a thread like we're referring to, I think of the word as more of a figure of speech and nothing more. I've been known to say I hate certain restaurants, but I don't really hate them or wish them any hardship. Friends of mine may truly enjoy those same restaurants but that doesn't affect our friendships. It's kinda like that.
 

MntnMan62

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Bohman plays drums on the Paul McCartney song, Beware My Love and the drumming is far too busy IMO. It just isn't a good fit. Bonham was great in the context of Led Zeppelin. I don't know how great he would have been in a band with a different style of music. Much like Charlie Watts is perfect for the Stones but wouldn't be in other bands that require busier playing.
You can't possibly compare Bonham and Watts. First, you criticize Bonham based on ONE tune? And, if Bonham had branched off into playing with other people besides Led Zep, he'd easily be able to tone down his playing whereas Watts doesn't have the chops to play more than he does. Wow.
 

Tornado

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I don't "hate" DW. They are fantastic drums, and are made well. They sound great.... Just not for any of the BS reasons John Good says or their marketing implies. I'd have to play them with coated heads so that I couldn't see the "timbre note" label inside. So that makes me not like them very much.
 

Bandit

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A great drummer? Yes. A great band? Yes. I have never been a huge fan but liked them back in the day. Although I can't get to the tuning button fast enough with Lady comes on the radio. A great fit? Nope. Put him in a reformed Mahavishnu Orchestra or King Crimson then yes, he would be great in that setting but overplaying in a straight ahead 70's rock band? Nope.
I will take overplaying over under playing any day. I like drumming after all. :)
 

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