Why vintage hardware?

JonnyFranchi$e

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2019
Messages
114
Reaction score
111
Maybe I'm too much of a pragmatist, but I always wonder what the value is of vintage hardware. I get the idea of vintage drums and cymbals. The sound and look and history. But vintage cymbal stands, those old concert snare stands. Kick pedals, high hat stands etc. These things just don't word as well in the little experience I have.

But the folks I know who are way into vintage gear for their jazz gigs and such - they always seem very into the vintage hardware.

So I ask y'all - WHY?

Is it the appearance, like you want the hardware to match the time period look of the drums?
Is it the pure historicity of the thing? Like "the drums are 1961, so the stands better be too"? Sort of a "period correct" thing?
Or is it that the vintage hardware is really BETTER in your opinion?

I LOVE vintage drum and cymbal stuff, but my instinct would be to upgrade all hardware ASAP if I was to start gigging a vintage kit.

Any thoughts would be interesting and enlightening to me. Thanks!
 

rstange1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
177
Reaction score
129
Location
Victoria, BC
Hmm. Good question! For me there's an intrinsic value to some material things (like musical instruments, cars, etc.) that have survived beyond their normal service life. So, in addition to liking the sound of my vintage kit, I like it just because it has endured for so long. Vintage drums have this intrinsic value just because they're old and should by all rights be gone. Having vintage hardware to complete a kit just adds to its intrinsic value. In the case of my Swivo-era Rogers kit, I'm also intrigued by the fact that the hardware was well thought out back in the day and is still quite functional today.
 

JonnyFranchi$e

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2019
Messages
114
Reaction score
111
Hmm. Good question! For me there's an intrinsic value to some material things (like musical instruments, cars, etc.) that have survived beyond their normal service life. So, in addition to liking the sound of my vintage kit, I like it just because it has endured for so long. Vintage drums have this intrinsic value just because they're old and should by all rights be gone. Having vintage hardware to complete a kit just adds to its intrinsic value. In the case of my Swivo-era Rogers kit, I'm also intrigued by the fact that the hardware was well thought out back in the day and is still quite functional today.

VERY cool. I understand it better from this. And yeah I probably am immediately ready to change my mind on this. As I start getting older myself, this makes more sense than it would have 20 years ago. I'm past my sell-by date but I can still bring the goods, so why not honor that reality with my entire kit including hardware?

Even quasi-vintage. I almost bought a '79 Premier recently. Part of my dilemma was that I would have had to sell all the original hardware to recoup the costs. I didn't want to. That kit was exactly like it came out of the store in 1979, including the hollow logo cymbals and cymbal stands. It felt like sacrilege to break that up. It was a work of art. Still shiny and everything after all these years. It is MEANT to be together.

Without having thought about it much, I sort of instinctively knew that there was a beauty or grandeur - a dignity - about the older hardware that I didn't want to compromise, even if it meant not getting a kit I was very much interested in.

IDK if I would gig with vintage hardware for a normal bar and grill 4 hour funk rock pop gig. But I hear the value better now. Thanks.
 

happyshump

Very well Known Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2008
Messages
795
Reaction score
108
Location
Melbourne
For me, I love the original look. Why have big bulky heavy hardware if you don't need it. I certainly don't. For my playing style vintage hardware holds up. I can even get away with hoop mount bass drum spurs.
 

el_37

Very well Known Member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
1,384
Reaction score
220
Location
NYC
I have been using vintage drums since the early 1990's when I started playing. Never owned a set of drums that were newer than 1979.

For 25 years I avoided using vintage flat based stands- now I embrace them. I use Slingerland ones. I guess I just don't hit hard enough. Always liked Speed Kings and strap drive pedals- now I use a cheap modern Yamaha strap drive, but used a Speed King for years before that.

I do admit that modern hi hat stands are very nice- and I use a Ludwig Atlas Classic. Also use a Modern Roc and Soc throne, and a vintage Ludwig Atlas snare stand.

1970's Stands are pretty heavy duty without all the bulk of 80's and 90's stands. I do find that for simple setups (which most guys who are into vintage use) there is no real loss using 1960's and 1970's hardware. Once you start having many cymbals and drums and mounted accessories- it is not so great.

On non gigging collector sets- it is kind of fun to piece together all the vintage hardware- and also very challenging. I wouldn't run from vintage hardware before actually using it and seeing if it works for you. Your back will love you if you start gigging with a set of Slingerland 33F flat based stands........
 
Last edited:

Ludwigboy

Well-Known Member
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
454
Reaction score
240
Location
Canada
To answer your questions...

" Is it the appearance, like you want the hardware to match the time period look of the drums?"

Yes, I do like this. My opinion, and this is my opinion, is that newer cymbal stands and hi hat look "out of place" with my set. I use Ludwig 1400 cymbal stands which would probably not take the day in-day out workload of a working drummer but work well for my occasional jobs..and are a LOT lighter
The two exceptions are a good throne (I use a modern Mapex) and on my 1966 Ludwig OBP gigging set, I use a modern single tom holder with the Hollywood bass drum for convenience but may convert it to Swivomatic or the original rail mount system eventually

"Is it the pure historicity of the thing? Like "the drums are 1961, so the stands better be too"? Sort of a "period correct" thing?"

Yes, I enjoy doing this. Maybe it is just me but it evokes a certain mood from the past when everything is "period correct". I have had one musician come up and look at the drums (he was about 78) and a smile spreads across his face and he says "I remember these drums" because a drummer he played with 1965 had a set with the same wrap....

"Or is it that the vintage hardware is really BETTER in your opinion? "
I don't think vintage hardware is better, at least with Ludwig, but it works for me . If maintained , it will serve well for occasional gigs;

Great question and thanks for asking!
 

Fullerton 9/72

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2013
Messages
392
Reaction score
244
Location
Florida USA
Most collectors are completists. I for one like the Time Capsule Look of my 1979 slingerland Buddy Rich outfit. I have all tubular stands and pedals for it, down to the Zildjian cymbal snaps!

Let me turn on the Way Back Machine:

0-8 by Stephen Duffy, on Flickr

But I wont gig it. My Black swivomatic Rogers kit, which I do frequently play, has new Tama hardware - nearly identical to their earlier stands which they produced back in the 1970s.
 

thin shell

DFO Master
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
3,918
Reaction score
1,141
The fact is that double braced hardware is not needed for most people unless they are heavy hitters or there is a positioning issue that can't be addressed with a straight stand.

In the 70's and 80's everyone was going for huge, multi tom kits with a million cymbals so the current hardware wasn't up to the task. Ludwig had their tube leg Atlas and then Hercules stands. Slingerland had their own take on tube leg stands. These were heavy for the times but lightweight by today's standards. Then came Tama and the other Japanese manufacturers with their double braced stands. Everyone else followed suit. Slingerland even came out with a triple braced line of hardware.

Most people don't use those huge kits any more so the only reason to keep using double braced stands is out of habit, falling for marketing hype, or hitting so hard that you may topple a lightweight stand. Outdoor concerts is another reason so things don't get knocked over by the wind but other than that I can't think of anything.

I had a two up, two down,hanging floor tom, single bass drum Starclassic set. All double braced stands. Four to five cymbals and a hi hat. My hardware case was a huge Rubbermaid plastic tub big enough to have saved Jessie Pinkman from destroying his bathroom. It weighed a ton.

I now use a one up, two down with four cymbals and all Ludwig 1400 or Tama classic (which are basically clones of the 1400) cymbal stands and an old single braced Ludwig Atlas hi hat. I can carry all of my stands at one time and have zero positioning or stability problems.

As far as hi hats, the only thing that new hi hats have over old ones as far as I'm concerned is the spring strength and adjustability of the spring tension.

Cymbals sound better when mounted to a lightweight stand as do drums mounted to lighter weight hardware.

Old thrones are terrible for your back so that is the one area where a modern throne is a must.
 

Tama CW

DFO Veteran
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2018
Messages
2,375
Reaction score
1,526
Location
SE Connecticut
I just recently added "vintage" Slingerland stands to my 1966 kit. It originally came with a mix of other brands. So I wanted all Slingerland. Picked up a set of Buddy Rich (2nd version) stands with the early black/silver decals and went for it. While flat based stands would have been technically correct, or the 1st version of BR stands with the small bases.....these 70's stands are quite rugged and get the job done. If I can swing the cost, I prefer original hardware with my kits.

I went to some lengths to make my 3 1980's Yamaha/Tama kits 100% correct with proper period hardware - labels, etc. They were approx 2/3 orig hardware when purchased....and felt compelled to go the 100%. And when I run into an original kit with the original hardware, I would never break it up. Just seems wrong. In fact I sold my very nice and matching 1981, std sizes, Tama Imperialstar with every piece of original hardware correct (less throne) for $350 a couple years ago. I could have easily parted out the 7 pieces of nice 80's Tama hardware for $200. Yet essentially sold the h/w for "free" to keep the kit intact. Having been quite active in other collectible fields since the 1970's, that collector DNA in me is strong.....the quest for the 3 C's.....condition, completion, correctness.

best 0 Slingerland 1966.jpg
 
Last edited:

John DeChristopher

Very well Known Member
Platinum Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2013
Messages
1,147
Reaction score
1,900
Location
Cohasset, Mass. USA
Modern hardware is:
1. Too heavy and cumbersome and frankly, ridiculous.
2. Over-engineered - everyone is trying to reinvent the wheel.
3. Generic - there's no real uniqueness amongst all the drum companies except for a few features. I mean, look at all the companies that use the exact same bass drum spurs.
4. Most of it comes from the same factory in Taiwan. Or is it China now?

Vintage hardware is just plain cooler.
1. It looks way cooler and hipper on a vintage kit.
2. The cymbal stands are lighter and truly allow cymbals to vibrate and resonate more freely.
3. Although Walberg & Auge was OEM of hardware for most US drum companies back in the day, there was still uniqueness amongst the drum companies' hardware designs. They had personality.
4. See point #1. It looks way cooler and hipper on a vintage kit.

Ok, I'll admit to using a "modern" throne and "occasionally" DW Ultralight cymbal stands, but for the most part, it's all vintage hardware. I'm up to 11, that's right 11! Gretsch Monster Hi Hat stands! And in fact, I'm back on the hunt for more vintage cymbal stands.

82127F16-EA42-49F5-B4AD-C348E524BB19_1_201_a.jpeg


488E7907-FEB9-4E38-B932-5CFE44B6FED5_1_201_a.jpeg
 
Last edited:

rstange1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
177
Reaction score
129
Location
Victoria, BC
A couple other things occurred to me about vintage cymbal stands. If I want to gig with any of my old Ks, all of my modern stands have an 8mm shaft, which is too large for the old K's small mount hole. My vintage stands were made for such things. Another benefit of my vintage setup is my Rogers Celebrity bass drum has two mounted cymbal stands which really help keep the hardware footprint around the drums to a minimum (see first photo). These orginal bass-drum-mounted stands are tough too -- my primary ride (22") lives on one of them.

Some vintage hardware doesn't work as well for me. The snare stand that came with my Rogers kit is to high for me once there's a snare drum on it. So, I use it to hold my practice pad (which can be seen in in the second photo below acting as a table for my brushes and face cloth).

Like many others in this thread, I use modern thrones.

IMG_0622.jpeg
IMG_0663.jpeg
 

10 Lug

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2008
Messages
326
Reaction score
171
Location
Cape Cod, MA
Here is an example of a catalog correct 1958 Slingerland set in Capri pearl. My dad bought these brand new and only used them for a few weeks. The club he had played in for many years burnt down and he retired. The drums sat in a closet for years until my mother gave/sold them to my brother, a guitar player. I don't think she remembered who the drummer was. After many years of sitting in his closet he sold them to me. As I am circling the drain, three weeks ago, I gave them to my son, also a drummer. They are where they should be now.
Sling 1.JPG
 

deegeebee

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2019
Messages
276
Reaction score
235
Location
Canada
Modern hardware is:
1. Too heavy and cumbersome and frankly, ridiculous.
2. Over-engineered - everyone trying to reinvent the wheel.
3. Generic - there's no real uniqueness amongst all the drum companies except for a few features. I mean, look at all the companies that use the exact same bass drum spurs.
4. Most of it comes from the same factory in Taiwan. Or is it China now?

Vintage hardware is just plain cooler.
1. It looks way cooler and hipper on a vintage kit.
2. The cymbal stands are lighter and truly allow cymbals to vibrate and resonate more freely.
3. Although Walberg & Auge was the OEM of hardware for most US drum companies back in the day, there was still uniqueness amongst the drum companies' hardware designs. They had personality.
4. See point #1. It looks way cooler and hipper on a vintage kit.

Ok, I'll admit to using a "modern" throne and "occasionally" DW Ultralight cymbal stands, but for the most part, it's all vintage hardware. I'm up to 11, that's right 11! Gretsch Monster Hi Hat stands! And in fact, I'm back on the hunt for more vintage cymbal stands.

View attachment 460953

View attachment 460954
And at least a few gold records thrown in for good measure, by the looks of it! Amazing!

Almost amazing enough to make me consider giving up my Yamaha 700/Gibraltar flat base hardware... almost.

Play exclusively vintage drums now and usually vintage cymbals. Budget constraints limit me to player shape gear chosen for sound only, not collectibility. As such, period correct hardware is absolutely out of the question. I stick to modern, well made, lightweight harware that is reliable without breaking the bank. Save my resources for those drums and cymbals that affect the SOUND!
 

BennyK

DFO Star
Platinum Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
15,212
Reaction score
2,277
My snares sound better on lightweight Slingerland and Ludwig 60's stands . I slip surgical tubing over the claws and the arms flex a bit when you hit the drum . No problem with heavier shells either - I used to play on a Pearl Ultracast Reference steel and they don't come any heavier than that . No worries .
 

BennyK

DFO Star
Platinum Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
15,212
Reaction score
2,277
Modern hardware is:
1. Too heavy and cumbersome and frankly, ridiculous.
2. Over-engineered - everyone is trying to reinvent the wheel.
3. Generic - there's no real uniqueness amongst all the drum companies except for a few features. I mean, look at all the companies that use the exact same bass drum spurs.
4. Most of it comes from the same factory in Taiwan. Or is it China now?

Vintage hardware is just plain cooler.
1. It looks way cooler and hipper on a vintage kit.
2. The cymbal stands are lighter and truly allow cymbals to vibrate and resonate more freely.
3. Although Walberg & Auge was OEM of hardware for most US drum companies back in the day, there was still uniqueness amongst the drum companies' hardware designs. They had personality.
4. See point #1. It looks way cooler and hipper on a vintage kit.

Ok, I'll admit to using a "modern" throne and "occasionally" DW Ultralight cymbal stands, but for the most part, it's all vintage hardware. I'm up to 11, that's right 11! Gretsch Monster Hi Hat stands! And in fact, I'm back on the hunt for more vintage cymbal stands.

View attachment 460953

View attachment 460954

Me lefty too .

Olympic cymbal stands ?

 
Last edited:

Myk

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2019
Messages
150
Reaction score
76
Here is an example of a catalog correct 1958 Slingerland set in Capri pearl. My dad bought these brand new and only used them for a few weeks. The club he had played in for many years burnt down and he retired. The drums sat in a closet for years until my mother gave/sold them to my brother, a guitar player. I don't think she remembered who the drummer was. After many years of sitting in his closet he sold them to me. As I am circling the drain, three weeks ago, I gave them to my son, also a drummer. They are where they should be now. View attachment 461014
^^That's a beautiful kit^^
 

JonnyFranchi$e

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2019
Messages
114
Reaction score
111
Thanks for all the responses - and pics! I think I'm getting it.

I almost bought this kit the other day, but it's out of my budget. The only way I could have done it would be to sell off the hardware to recoup some of the cost, use my modern double braced, over-engineered stuff. Not only would it have probably looked wrong on this beautiful kit - there's something about this being all original. This is almost certainly exactly like it came out of the store in 1979. (I know that's not like a Rogers from 1940 or something, but it's still an "older" or "vintage" kit). Anyway I didn't have the heart to bust this thing apart like that. It's inherently better all together. I hope this gets to a good home with an owner who has the same mindset, because this is a really neat piece:

Screen Shot 2020-09-20 at 6.45.40 PM.png
 

Myk

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2019
Messages
150
Reaction score
76
I use a 70's Ludwig Speed King or a 70's Camco, a couple years ago I bought a tama speed cobra for myself for Christmas and there actually wasn't a lot of difference, so I returned it.
$50 Ludwig or $50 Camco compared to $200+Tama, couldn't justify it
 


Top