Won't that extra gear make you louder?

[paul]

I started with a straight ahead jazz septet in September, and usually bring a four piece with a ride and two crashes or ride and china to gigs. Saturday night. because I knew there was room on stage and had another gig the next day, I brought my preferred set, a six piece with ride, three crashes, china, and splash. The leader's first comment on seeing it all set up was as quoted in the header. This from a guy who's been playing for decades and is certainly not stupid or ignorant.

It does seem like laymen and even other musicians expect the drummer to be louder when he has more drums. I even had another drummer once ask me how I could play jazz on a nine piece setup. My response was unprintable.

Anybody else ever experience this?

 

[mtarrani]

I started with a straight ahead jazz septet in September, and usually bring a four piece with a ride and two crashes or ride and china to gigs. Saturday night. because I knew there was room on stage and had another gig the next day, I brought my preferred set, a six piece with ride, three crashes, china, and splash. The leader's first comment on seeing it all set up was as quoted in the header. This from a guy who's been playing for decades and is certainly not stupid or ignorant.

It does seem like laymen and even other musicians expect the drummer to be louder when he has more drums. I even had another drummer once ask me how I could play jazz on a nine piece setup. My response was unprintable.

Anybody else ever experience this?

I get the opposite: when I show up with BD, hats, snare and ride they ask if I know how to play a "proper" kit. Usually "they" are laymen; I think drummers know what a challenge it is.

 

[CC Cirillo]

Sheesh.

Paul, from what I’ve read of your astute posts here, the answer is, no it will not. I can email him if you like.

I think bandmates see more gear and the fearful thought percolating in their collective head is: All that gear is going to make him overplay, which can translate to being too loud.

I play a lot of rock but with a four piece with two cymbals. At one longstanding gig I brought a cow bell. The guitarist—after the obligatory “more” remark—commented to the bassist that we’d probably be hearing it all night.

I played it on a breakdown in one song.

 

[swarfrat]

Probably read it here, maybe Talkbass (lot of drummer animosity there). They were talking about auditioning drummers, and you could pick your cymbals from a big pile in the band practice space. The big china was an automatic prejudice.

It was only like this month when I discovered that Chinas were originally considered ride cymbals and not monster loud trashy crashes. Never been particularly interested, but I'm mildly curious now (just no space in my stripped down setup)

 

[paul]

I got my first china in 1976 under the influence of Billy Cobham, and my hard rock band hated it. I have four of them now, from a 12" Oriental splash to a 70s era 22" Zildjian swish that my big band leader actually writes into arrangements. I like using one as a secondary ride, and the 20" Oriental crash is also stellar as a bombastic crash.

 

[Vicey]

One of the few church gigs I have ever played involved something like this. I brought a number of cymbals that I had recently acquired and wanted to try out. They were not particularly loud, and I didn't bash them. Someone in the choir started complaining that all they could hear was cymbals. Next thing I know I'm inside the plexiglass booth of shame.

Some people think that cymbals are like amps. Some people listen with their eyes. Some people are stupid.

 

[Tornado]

"Too loud" = "Stuff I don't like at any volume"

 

[michaelocalypse]

Usually when I come across comments like that, the person is worried that you will become more of a focal point than they are, like you're peacocking or something, and they have no way of competing for the audience's attention. They have an ideal visual of what a stage looks like with a band, and how they look in that situation. You brought an extra drum and destroyed his vision.

 

[dharma bum]

This is a funny post. I have seen drummers with huge sets be TOO quiet, where they're not driving the band, and guys with bikini kits be way too loud. More surfaces to hit does not equal more volume.

 

[CherryClassic]

Back in the day of playing Big Band style music (a small group of 7), I thought I needed a larger 8-piece drum set and used it for most of our gigs. I was asked to fill in with another Bid Band. I walked in with a smaller 5-piece kit. One of the sax players commented that was a larger set up than we are used to seeing. I replied; I have three more toms in the truck if you would like me to bring them in. He said, OH NO, what you have will be fine. LOL And we all laughed.

I remember the first time our Big Band played in a small dance hall in Austin, Texas. As I started unloading the trailer and bring in the equipment I realized, just a conversation with two people, there was an echo in the room. An older gentleman walked up to me looking at our speakers and PA system, he mentioned I don't think you're going to need all that sound system. Bands can get really loud in here. I replied: Sir we pride ourselves in being able play at a level so people at tables can carry on a conversation. I'm the sound man here and I do set in the back of the stage. If you will help me by letting me know if we are too loud, I can fix that. He never came to me to complain; at the end of the gig, he walked up to the piano man and commented on how nice the band sounded. BTW: The place was packed with ladies in full ball room dresses and that helped a lot.

As was commented above: People see big they think loud. There are a lot of bands that don't realize that a PA system is like a gas pedal on your car, the more you push it the faster you'll go. PA systems are really meant to be use as a tool to help bands improve on the sound, not loud. They are tools to mix and blend then the volume should only be as loud as it needs to be to be heard, not blown out the back door. LOL

sherm

 

[Seb77]

Chinas and crashes do have a higher sound that can be perceived as louder, more piercing. The human ear is very sensitiveat frequencie around 3kHz. With the same playing style, larger, lower-pitched cymbals and wood-tipped sticks, usually make for quieter sound.

 

[JimmySticks]

I started with a straight ahead jazz septet in September, and usually bring a four piece with a ride and two crashes or ride and china to gigs. Saturday night. because I knew there was room on stage and had another gig the next day, I brought my preferred set, a six piece with ride, three crashes, china, and splash. The leader's first comment on seeing it all set up was as quoted in the header. This from a guy who's been playing for decades and is certainly not stupid or ignorant.

It does seem like laymen and even other musicians expect the drummer to be louder when he has more drums. I even had another drummer once ask me how I could play jazz on a nine piece setup. My response was unprintable.

Anybody else ever experience this?

You might question the guitar player if he walked into your jazz gig with a Marshal stack and a Gibson Flying V. Yeah, he could play that jazz show, but the looks, yeah, the looks wouldn't be good!

 

[swarfrat]

Some love the JTM45/1987/1959/2203/2204 clean tone even more than Fender. I'm one of em.

 

[ARGuy]

I wonder if people like that band leader just assume that drummers with more gear won't be able to control themselves and will just start bashing away no matter what the music calls for.

 

[drums1225]

I wonder if people like that band leader just assume that drummers with more gear won't be able to control themselves and will just start bashing away no matter what the music calls for.

If only drummers who show up with "more gear" would prove these people wrong more often... Unfortunately, so many prove them right.

 

[paul]

Actually, right after I joined the big band I was playing a 22/13/15 that the leader's mentor told him were "rock 'n roll" drums, and that I should play small drums like Jeff Hamilton. Then I had to miss a rehearsal, and the sub we got changed everything. I heard later that he showed up with a four piece set of very small drums, and proceeded to beat hell out of them. John later said he'd never played with a drummer that loud. Also, he could barely play swing, had no clue about any latin rhythm, and was generally incompetent, to the point that there was a near fight in the trumpet section, and rehearsal was called halfway through.

I've never heard a word since about what equipment I bring. Ever.

 

[Houndog]

Not much makes me much madder than some other musician telling me how many drums they think I need .

 

[paul]

Not much makes me much madder than some other musician telling me how many drums they think I need .

Yeah, but a lot of them have an opinion, don't they?

 

[Houndog]

Yeah, but a lot of them have an opinion, don't they?

Dude better not have a 6 string bass telling me that !!!!!!

 

[vsp39o2]

Simon Phillips was quoted as saying his kit is a singular instrument. Back in the day, when some shmuck called him to task for setting up a large kit, SP replied he could leave some of it in the car if the critic would leave all but 17 of his most used piano keys in the case. I believe that ended the conversation.