Would really appreciate some help mentally working this beat out

EvanCrane

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Hey guys,

I'm new here so sorry if this doesn’t belong here, I’m just incredibly frustrated with trying to learn a specific beat right now and would really appreciate some help.

I would say I’m a beginner-intermediate drummer, unfortunately I’m forced to play on an electric kit in my apartment 95% of the time and I’ve never had an actual lesson in person, I’ve learned almost entirely from watching videos and listening to songs. Because of this I know there is a lot of drumming theory I’m missing out on, or at least I feel I am missing out on, as I’m best at imitating other drummers and not so great at improvising.

Anyway there’s a specific part to a song called Scutum and Scorpius by the Oh Sees that I’m trying to learn. Not sure if I can post a link here or not but the song is on YouTube and the part I’m trying to learn starts at the 2 minute mark.

I can hear the bass, snare, and ride all independently of each other, but I simply can’t play it. I can play the ride and snare together or the bass and snare, but I can’t play the bass with the ride. I understand this comes down to limb independence but I practice independence exercises every time I play and I still can’t wrap my head around this one. I’ve tried counting it out, writing it down, any time I think I’m about to figure it out I just end up not being able to play it.

I’ve been trying for over a week now and I just feel defeated at this point. I know this is asking a lot but if someone could share some knowledge with me to help me mentally digest this beat I would really appreciate it, thank you!
 

EvanCrane

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This is the song, the bit I'm referring to starts at the 2 minute mark. Again, I know I'm asking for a lot but any advice helps and is greatly appreciated!
 
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Hop

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JDA Beat me to it as I was typing this up!!!


The part can be counted a couple of different ways but this practice one is a pretty easy approach (although I didn't write the bass part with rests to make it easier on the eye).

Since you're having some independence trouble I would recommend starting on just the snare & bass or Practice pad and tapping your foot.
Count out loud, Tap this out on the snare, bass on 1, use a Left hand accent on the count of 4....


1.JPG


After you're comfortable with this, just move your right hand to the bell of the ride cymbal.....

2.JPG



and use ghosted snare notes on the 2 & 6 and keep the accent on the 4 like above.

3.JPG


After you're comfortable with that add the bass drum on 3 (keep playing on 1 as well)….
After you get that down play bass on 1,3 and 6.
Go slow at first and you'll get it quick enough. Also use the settings feature on YT to slow the clip down to hear it a bit better. You'll notice that the drummer moves the pattern a bit differently than presented here, but what we shared should get you started down the path.
 
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RIDDIM

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Check out Richard Bailey's groove on Freeway Jam. It's basically triplets played hand to hand, one on the high hat, the other on the snare.

The groove starts at 00:07.
 

Hop

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I'll see your Jeff Beck and raise you an Uli Jon Roth... Hermann is in the same neighborhood but not as tight/clean... but the tune rocks!

 

EvanCrane

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Wow, what an incredibly helpful bunch, thanks everyone who posted! I'm gonna practice the JDA and Hop exercises tomorrow, so helpful seeing it written out like that, you guys are legends, thanks again!

That's an awesome video JazzDrumGuy and one of my favorite songs of theirs, if you like that you should check out the album version of that song Henchlock, its like 24 minutes long and includes some awesome saxophones. That whole KEXP performance is great though.

And funny you mention slowing down youtube videos Hop, that's primarily how I'm learning some more difficult songs now, watching live performances in slow motion and studying that. Doing that I've been able to teach this beat to myself (mostly) including ghost notes and everything but sometimes hits in my double strokes on the bass don't register or seem to die for lack of a better term, but I suppose I'll bug you guys about that at another time.


Thanks again everyone, I now have some hope.
 

Johnny K

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Check out Richard Bailey's groove on Freeway Jam. It's basically triplets played hand to hand, one on the high hat, the other on the snare.

The groove starts at 00:07.
I was listening to Blow By Blow all day last week and i had no idea who was playing on the album except it I knew it wasnt Jeff's goto guy at the time, Cozy Powell. I coulda swore by the playing style and the hi-hat and cymbal work it was Harvey Mason. I googled it when I got home and saw Richard Bailey. Even with Jeff name dropping him during his interview for the Live At Ronnie Scott's thing, Richard Bailey didnt even rate a blue hot link on Wiki. The guy is fantastic. I'm sure I couldnt even get Scatterbrain down at 1/2 the speed he was playing it.
 

RIDDIM

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I was listening to Blow By Blow all day last week and i had no idea who was playing on the album except it I knew it wasnt Jeff's goto guy at the time, Cozy Powell. I coulda swore by the playing style and the hi-hat and cymbal work it was Harvey Mason. I googled it when I got home and saw Richard Bailey. Even with Jeff name dropping him during his interview for the Live At Ronnie Scott's thing, Richard Bailey didnt even rate a blue hot link on Wiki. The guy is fantastic. I'm sure I couldnt even get Scatterbrain down at 1/2 the speed he was playing it.
Cozy was out of the picture in 1971. BBA followed and lasted until May or so of 1974. Blow By Blow was recorded in October of 1974.
 

RIDDIM

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I was listening to Blow By Blow all day last week and i had no idea who was playing on the album except it I knew it wasnt Jeff's goto guy at the time, Cozy Powell. I coulda swore by the playing style and the hi-hat and cymbal work it was Harvey Mason. I googled it when I got home and saw Richard Bailey. Even with Jeff name dropping him during his interview for the Live At Ronnie Scott's thing, Richard Bailey didnt even rate a blue hot link on Wiki. The guy is fantastic. I'm sure I couldnt even get Scatterbrain down at 1/2 the speed he was playing it.
- Richard was 18 or so when he did that. There are fair amount of things he's done on YT, including a lot of recent footage with Winwood and his own bands in the UK. Check out the Gonzales album; if TOP were Afro Caribbean, they'd sound like that. Ditto Breakfast Band and Incognito - he's on a lot of their stuff from the past 20 years or so. And he has some great solo albums.
 

JDA

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He (Bailey) never played that same way (blow by Blow) again.. Must have been in a heluva mood when that was recorded. The youtube's with Winwood; near doesn't- seem the 'same person!
 

RIDDIM

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He (Bailey) never played that same way (blow by Blow) again.. Must have been in a heluva mood when that was recorded. The youtube's with Winwood; near doesn't- seem the 'same person!
- We all play differently with different people, and of the Blow By Blow materiel, very few tunes get called at jam sessions, in my experience. Plus, at 60+, many of us hear a bit more broadly than we did at 18. That said, I was at Roppongi Pit Inn (Tokyo) one night in 1979. Richard was too - in town to do a session - and the band asked him up. They played Freeway Jam and he played the signature groove.
 

bolweevil

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As I was thinking about this sort of beat after reading this thread, and goofing around with a beat similar to the one in 'Freeway Jam' posted above, something clicked and I finally figured out how to play the part in 'Fool in the Rain'--the part where he goes to the bell of the ride. That had escaped me for years. Thanks everyone! (it was actually a pretty exciting moment for me).
 

toddbishop

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What everyone else said-- play alternating 8th note triplets, RH on cym, LH on snare, accent the 2/4 with the left hand, add bass drum on whatever cym notes you want. I'm hearing more bass drum than just the 1.
 

RIDDIM

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I was listening to Blow By Blow all day last week and i had no idea who was playing on the album except it I knew it wasnt Jeff's goto guy at the time, Cozy Powell. I coulda swore by the playing style and the hi-hat and cymbal work it was Harvey Mason. I googled it when I got home and saw Richard Bailey. Even with Jeff name dropping him during his interview for the Live At Ronnie Scott's thing, Richard Bailey didnt even rate a blue hot link on Wiki. The guy is fantastic. I'm sure I couldnt even get Scatterbrain down at 1/2 the speed he was playing it.
- Richard was maybe 18 at the time. Bad cat. Look for Breakfast Band and Gonzales, among others, on YT. He also has some very nice solo CDs.
 

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