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Your latest cymbal purchase.....

donbseattle

donbseattle

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One of the newly reissued Formula 602's.....black ink, 2530 grams excellent shape I had rivets added by a drum maker pal.

1668669561335.png
 
type85

type85

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Tarkus said:
Wow. Are these polished? They look like brand new. I bet they sound good.
Together with this 2002 16" crash above I ask myself where you get these gems. Congratulations anyway.
Click to expand...
I've bought virtually all my cymbals from Germany, Switzerland, Italy and the 15" hi hats above from the Netherlands.
The bottom hi hat was already pretty clean, it had been cleaned several times. I did remove the oxidation and clean the top cymbal.
What happens with old cymbals is the finish is almost always very dull and oxidized, when you use any kind of abrasive cleaner, it will tend to give the cymbal a semi "polished" look. This is similar but not as extreme as Zildjian's brilliant finish where they hi speed buff the cymbal with a fine abrasive to get a mirror like shine.
There's no way to bring back the original finish as the original surface material has changed to copper and tin oxide, when you remove it with a chemical tarnish remover, you're left with a dull matte finish, using a very fine abrasive cleaner (and hours of hard work) brings back the shine but it has more of a polished look as you can see below.....
The early 16" 2002 was in really good shape, I just used a little tarnish remover to remove the stains, it still has most of it's clear coat, so that helped a great deal!

1668707556762.jpeg


1668708083587.jpeg
 
Z

zenstat

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Fat Drummer said:
A thin crash weighing 2530? Ya gotta give some more details on this one!
Click to expand...

Don's is a 22" and the weight is not out of range for a 22" Thin Crash. It has shifted from "over 2509g" at first report to 2530g in the second report. This is within the weight and re-weigh variability.

Jump back to here and start reading and you will see another one from the preserial era which weighs 2320g.

Your latest cymbal purchase.....

I just got this (I believe '70's) 20" A Zildjian Swish--WITH the original rivets still intact! I have a few other 20's in the Swish model, and THIS ONE has the sound I love. I won't part with this one!
www.drumforum.org www.drumforum.org

That's about 200g or around 8% lighter than the Reissue Don is reporting. You can see 7 indicative weights in the wiki entry although that entry does not specify which era each weight from.

Paiste Formula 602 22" Thin Crash - Cymbal

www.cymbal.wiki www.cymbal.wiki

There is a COW (common online wisdom) that Paiste cymbals got heavier proceeding through Preserial, Black Label, Blue Label. The Reissues are thought to fit in with the Black Label weights. I've been collecting weights in order to explore that COW. I've got 16 weights in my database and am about to add 2 more. ;-) That includes 4 Paper Thin models. The idea is to slowly update the wiki weight information to give a more complete picture in a nicer graphical way. The first wiki page I added more details to was 18" Fo602s

Paiste Formula 602 18" Medium Ride - Cymbal

www.cymbal.wiki www.cymbal.wiki

and that convinced me we need a nicer way to summarize weights once we get to more than 10 or so examples. I need to solve that before I tackle something like 20" Medium (n=25) and 20" Medium Ride (n=76) where I've got much more data.
 
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Fat Drummer

Fat Drummer

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zenstat said:
Don's is a 22" and the weight is not out of range for a 22" Thin Crash. It has shifted from "over 2509g" at first report to 2530g in the second report. This is within the weight and re-weigh variability.

Jump back to here and start reading and you will see another one from the preserial era which weighs 2320g.

Your latest cymbal purchase.....

I just got this (I believe '70's) 20" A Zildjian Swish--WITH the original rivets still intact! I have a few other 20's in the Swish model, and THIS ONE has the sound I love. I won't part with this one!
www.drumforum.org www.drumforum.org

That's about 200g or around 8% lighter than the Reissue Don is reporting. You can see 7 indicative weights in the wiki entry although that entry does not specify which era each weight from.

Paiste Formula 602 22" Thin Crash - Cymbal

www.cymbal.wiki www.cymbal.wiki

There is a COW (common online wisdom) that Paiste cymbals got heavier proceeding through Preserial, Black Label, Blue Label. The Reissues are thought to fit in with the Black Label weights. I've been collecting weights in order to explore that COW. I've got 16 weights in my database and am about to add 2 more. ;-) That includes 4 Paper Thin models. The idea is to slowly update the wiki weight information to give a more complete picture in a nicer graphical way. The first wiki page I added more details to was 18" Fo602s

Paiste Formula 602 18" Medium Ride - Cymbal

www.cymbal.wiki www.cymbal.wiki

and that convinced me we need a nicer way to summarize weights once we get to more than 10 or so examples. I need to solve that before I tackle something like 20" Medium (n=25) and 20" Medium Ride (n=76) where I've got much more data.
Click to expand...

And THIS is a perfect example of why I appreciate your work so much. I could not conceive a crash weighing 2530, but then I had no idea the diameter of what is on offer or being shown as I have limited knowledge of the Paiste brand.

So following your example I went back to my current collection to review the data at hand. I have no 22" crash (though I have had in the past) and my largest crashes are 20" models weighing in at 1570 and 1750. Since I now know we are looking at a 22" cymbal, I went to my 22" rides and they are 2290, 2425 and 2610. The middle of those weights happens to be a UFiP 22" Natural Crash/Ride, and as I find UFiP has more in common with Paiste (sound characteristics) than say Zildjian, I am not surprised to find the weights more similar.

So now I that have context, the idea of a 2500+ 22" crash does not seem out of range at all. I prefer much thinner cymbals in all sizes but I do enjoy crashing my 22" rides so I get it. Thanks for the time to share the information get me to dig a little deeper myself.

Ward
 
1988fxlr

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Fat Drummer said:
And THIS is a perfect example of why I appreciate your work so much. I could not conceive a crash weighing 2530, but then I had no idea the diameter of what is on offer or being shown as I have limited knowledge of the Paiste brand.

So following your example I went back to my current collection to review the data at hand. I have no 22" crash (though I have had in the past) and my largest crashes are 20" models weighing in at 1570 and 1750. Since I now know we are looking at a 22" cymbal, I went to my 22" rides and they are 2290, 2425 and 2610. The middle of those weights happens to be a UFiP 22" Natural Crash/Ride, and as I find UFiP has more in common with Paiste (sound characteristics) than say Zildjian, I am not surprised to find the weights more similar.

So now I that have context, the idea of a 2500+ 22" crash does not seem out of range at all. I prefer much thinner cymbals in all sizes but I do enjoy crashing my 22" rides so I get it. Thanks for the time to share the information get me to dig a little deeper myself.

Ward
Click to expand...
For comparison I have an 80’s Zildjian A 20” “medium crash” weighing 2452g, so examples over 2500 probably existed
 
Tarkus

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type85 said:
I've bought virtually all my cymbals from Germany, Switzerland, Italy and the 15" hi hats above from the Netherlands.
The bottom hi hat was already pretty clean, it had been cleaned several times. I did remove the oxidation and clean the top cymbal.
What happens with old cymbals is the finish is almost always very dull and oxidized, when you use any kind of abrasive cleaner, it will tend to give the cymbal a semi "polished" look. This is similar but not as extreme as Zildjian's brilliant finish where they hi speed buff the cymbal with a fine abrasive to get a mirror like shine.
There's no way to bring back the original finish as the original surface material has changed to copper and tin oxide, when you remove it with a chemical tarnish remover, you're left with a dull matte finish, using a very fine abrasive cleaner (and hours of hard work) brings back the shine but it has more of a polished look as you can see below.....
The early 16" 2002 was in really good shape, I just used a little tarnish remover to remove the stains, it still has most of it's clear coat, so that helped a great deal!

View attachment 593025

View attachment 593026
Click to expand...

Thanks for this comments. I thought about cleaning many times but always decided to leave it as it is and 'call it patina'.
Maybe we should discuss this somewhere else (and I guess it was already discussed a lot)...
Anyway, nice and rare cymbals, before and after.
 
D

Danny

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Had a few too many rye old fashioneds last night and made some purchases. 14” Jazz Master and 16” Master Vintage hats.
 

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