Z dyno beats or other bright hi hat options

1988fxlr

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I agree with your original assumption. Those cymbals are not anywhere near "bright". For a jazz player, those might be considered "bright", but they're definitely not what you're looking for. They're all significantly less bright than New Beats.
The problem with describing cymbals in words is that the words have different meaning to everyone, and everybody has different ears and sticks too. So far the closest I’ve come to what I’m looking for is my 14” new beats played with the bottom hat on top
 

bpaluzzi

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Love the pedal sound on them, but the stick sound is deeper/darker than I would have expected. The drums I’m pairing with are kind of one dimensional towards either disco/funk sort of sounds or Dio/Scorpions sort of hard rock/heavy metal vibes. Thanks for the videos
Lars Ulrich's black album kit (the big white Tama kit) used 14" Dyno beat hats -- I think of the recordings from that era as VERY accurate to how the Zs sounded:
 

853guy

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Lars Ulrich's black album kit (the big white Tama kit) used 14" Dyno beat hats -- I think of the recordings from that era as VERY accurate to how the Zs sounded:
Sabian's for the recording as can be seen by the distinctive logo. Legend has it they were 15" AA or HH Rock Hats, but I can't remember where I may have read that. Screenshots are from A Year and a Half in the Life of Metallica, in which they documented the Black Album sessions.

Screenshot 2021-06-09 at 22.47.09.png
Screenshot 2021-06-09 at 22.54.47.png
 
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JDA

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high without the extreme volume db level

 
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1988fxlr

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Sabian's for the recording as can be seen by the distinctive logo. Legend has it they were 15" AA or HH Rock Hats , but I can't remember where I may have read that. Screenshots are from A Year and a Half in the Life of Metallica, in which they documented the Black Album sessions.

View attachment 503569 View attachment 503570
More disappointed to realize 30 years later I don’t really know what those white Tamas sounded like
 

1988fxlr

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high without extreme volume db level

Great sounding cymbals but definitely more reminiscent of my little Zilco’s than even the vintage new beats. Ones mans bright is another mans dark. My bright is probably your harsh and obnoxious
 

853guy

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More disappointed to realize 30 years later I don’t really know what those white Tamas sounded like
Yeah, it's been well documented Lars used a Tama Bell Brass snare with Gretsch kick and toms for the Black Album.

Again - if memory serves correctly - he used an Artstar II but with Granstar lugs live. That kit, along with the Z Custom hats and their star-shaped stamping on the top cymbal can be seen and heard here:


Best!

853guy

P.S. If anyone is curious, Bob Rock used a Neumann KM86 for the top mic on the snare. Amazing for that purpose, but of course, crazy money now.
 
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Tommy D

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I dont think you need something that is "bright" or high pitched. You want the cymbals to match the sound that the drums have. I think you need something that is "cutting" to match the North drums. If thats what you are looking for I would try to find any set of hi hats with the wavy bottom cymbal. Zildjian calls them "Master Sound" hi hats, Sabian calls them "X-Celerator" hi hats, Paiste calls them "Sound Edge".

Here is a demo of A New Beats vs A Mastersounds:

There is a bit of a brighter tone to the master sounds, but they are more percussive/cutting and not nearly as smooth sounding as the New Beat hats.
 

cobaltspike

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Try a pair of 2002 sound edge 14's. I have a pair of 15's and they are plenty bright enough for me so 14's should be more so. I also had a pair of Paiste Alpha's that were really bright and pretty affordable.
 
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1988fxlr

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I dont think you need something that is "bright" or high pitched. You want the cymbals to match the sound that the drums have. I think you need something that is "cutting" to match the North drums. If thats what you are looking for I would try to find any set of hi hats with the wavy bottom cymbal. Zildjian calls them "Master Sound" hi hats, Sabian calls them "X-Celerator" hi hats, Paiste calls them "Sound Edge".

Here is a demo of A New Beats vs A Mastersounds:

There is a bit of a brighter tone to the master sounds, but they are more percussive/cutting and not nearly as smooth sounding as the New Beat hats.
Something like those mastersounds with a little more weight could definitely work. The bright/high pitched angle is more for variety from what I already own but the cut is great. I’m guessing phil rudd must have been playing sound edges for the intro to back in black, which is a great tight hi hat sound
 

daveplaydrum

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Try a pair of 2002 sound edge 14's. I have a pair of 15's and they are plenty bright enough for me so 14's should be more so. I also had a pair of Paiste Alpha's that were really bright and pretty affordable.
I second the alphas, I forgot about them. They’re nice for the price
 

1988fxlr

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Just pulled the trigger on a set of z custom 14” used from guitar center online. For $94 after shipping, if I hate them and can’t return them I should be able to flip them without losing much. I suspect that they may both end up being used as bottoms with the sabian aa marching cymbals as tops(similar to 90’s new beat tops in weight and tone). Wish me luck. I appreciate all the input and I definitely need to get a chance to check out some of the different bottom cymbal treatments in the future (se, mastersound, quick beat, et al)
 

michaelocalypse

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I had a set of Z/A or Z/K... whatever they were. 13". THE Zs ARE HELLA LOUD. I'm not personally interested in owning another Z cymbal, and I prefer to play rock/metal.
 

1988fxlr

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I had a set of Z/A or Z/K... whatever they were. 13". THE Zs ARE HELLA LOUD. I'm not personally interested in owning another Z cymbal, and I prefer to play rock/metal.
Yeah. I will be surprised if I like them as a pair, but I have a lot of different 14” cymbals I can experiment pairing. I have a paper thin early a crash, 60’s new beats, thin 70’s a crash and the 80’s or 90’s aa marchers so thinking something extremely heavy to match with all the light cymbals will be fun.
 


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