Zenstat you are not allowed to leave

stuart s

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I sent a spam report once and the post was removed quickly, did not need a reply.
Im newer here and have noticed the mods here are fast and friendly, much more so than the many other forums I visit.
Ive also noticed they do monitor things than can get problematic, and in turn I monitor myself so I dont get out of hand and monitor myself.
 

Drumstickdude

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Another vote of great respect for Zenstat, I've always greatly enjoyed reading and learning the fascinating stuff he has researched and made available for all. I've also had some great replies with cymbal and snare drum questions and always been stunned by the relevant answers that included links to his research pages. Please don't leave!:angel4:
 

JazzyJeff

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Indeed I don’t post as much as I used to, but I still look at the site to keep informed on certain things. One of them is checking out what the great Zen has to say about cymbals.
Zenstat, please don’t go!
 

JazzDrumGuy

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Zen, you are a walking Wiki of info and have been over the years to me and the numerous other members......do what you need to, and I hope you are or get well, but know I truly thank you for all your words of wisdom, advice, data and photos!!!

As my boy Muddy used to say, "Baby, please don't go!"........best wishes, Steve.
We truly aren't worthy.....
 

Burps

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When the Paiste-Only site and the Paiste Wiki went the way of the dodo, I had this awful feeling of loss. This feels almost the same. Zen, please stay. :sad1:
 

zenstat

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When the Paiste-Only site and the Paiste Wiki went the way of the dodo, I had this awful feeling of loss. This feels almost the same. Zen, please stay. :sad1:
Please see where I'm doing my writing now: the reconstructed Paiste-Only Wiki


Guys and gals, I haven't left -- just taken an open ended posting holiday. People have read something into my words which I didn't intend. Sorry for any unnecessary angst.

I'm thinking a posting holiday is is a Win-Win-Win-Win.

  1. I free up more time to work on writing up my research for Cymbal Wiki,
  2. DFOers (and the wider interested community) win because there will be quality information available sooner on Cymbal Wiki,
  3. The Moderators win because no work is involved talking to a couple of users about their behavior,
  4. The members who I feel were out of line win because they don't have to get all agitated when I ask for references, evidence, science, logic, etc when they post.
I've spent the last few weeks working on bringing my databases up to scratch. I'm currently on record 2,035 out of 2,806 in the A database. I've been talking about doing it for far too long. Now I'm re-energized and it is action time. In addition to cleaning and checking everything, I am recoding the model ink info ready for analysis, adding in bell diameter, etc. I've also recoded the fields so that it is easier to retrieve the cymbals where there are discrepancies between the "trademark age" and the "ink age" and the "hammering/lathing age". When the database is clean I will move on to a new round of analysis of prices and weights but with full model information. That will include production years with sound files as well as photos, weights, and used and new prices.

After that I'm not sure what is next, but only because there are so many projects queued up. I might finally get to the American K stuff which will be done in the same style as the A stuff. But then I've also been wanting to do an improved timeline for K Zildjian Istanbul which includes better diagnostics plus the pre 1940s K Zildjian Constantinoples which I didn't have sorted out when I did this:


Once an improved timeline is in place the American K stuff will just flow on from there to all the present Zildjian offerings of the K persuasion. :icon_e_wink:

I've also split my Paiste database into 4 (602/SC; B15; B8; Masters) because it got too big to be together in just one table. I still need to go through and do the cleaning and checking, although the Paiste data already had the model level info nicely recorded. Then it is time for a major pricing and weights update of Paiste. There is oodles of stuff to add to the Paiste Wiki to recover all of what went "Dodo mode".

I haven't replied to all the well wishing posts, nor the PMs, but they have made my heart glad. Thank you all. Now I'm back to running down a triplicate record for the same cymbal starting at record 2,035. Sometimes these are legitimate (resales of the same cymbal -- which are actually very helpful with pricing studies). Sometimes the duplicate records are really two different but very similar cymbals including weight. Sometimes they are the same cymbal which appeared to sell but then mysteriously reappears months later. Sometimes duplicate records just need tidying up into one. I'll get it tidied up, but quality takes time. I just can't do quality statistical research and keep responding to this sort of stream of consciousness stuff.

Put it at 300$ and see where it goes No reserve..
That's the thing about musical instruments somewhere along the way they became commodities.
Sure since the 1920's- (or the 19th century) they had a 'price' (old Ks in 1941 Gretsch catalogs for 78$) but the inflation of that price due to unintended/intended/ internet chatter (since the communication dawn of dial-up 1998 _ has (had) us/people/everyone and their brother/ looking at them (musical instruments) as 'commodities.

So the price of that depends on how hot the "market" is for them at any given time.
In other words there's an emotional factor added in to the price of many musical instruments " Tony Ride, Bonham snare, Ringo snare and set, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. (Ludwig 1400 cymbal stands for cripes sake)

What one could do is find the retail price of that cymbal in the catalog of its year. Adjust it for inflation. Cut it in half because it's used. Then the emotional factors get rolled in; not made anymore, Paul Motian used one, etc etc etc etc etc. The guys that just may like them are priced out. In a way it's a fake price that someone will pay. (some) one or a few more being the operative word. What's it worth? 0$ to one guy 100$ to another 400$ to one 1000$ to another...
It depends on the emotional strength of the day you hit upon.
It's what has happened when emotion is added to musical tools
musical instruments as emotional purchases
commodities.

On another point you say to yourself- what do I have in this cymbal- how much do I have in this cymbal dollar wise. Above that is your call or the markets call. Not predictable or forcastable. Or trust statistical averages. Which may have (one minute ago) changed.

I wish sometimes we would not see musical instruments as 'money'..
Just get what you paid for them if you can,.
 

Nacci

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For whatever dustups and DUSTWUNS occur on this forum it is still the best thing out there

Maybe it was the “Fabreeze” spam banner covering the “Main” button that sent him AWOL?
 

Mcjnic

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Zen

You are a good asset to the drum world. But you can be an elitist troll at times.

You and I spoke recently and I presented you with specific examples of where you were way out of line and absolutely destroyed our conversations.

This has happened over the span of years and years. You reached out to me recently because I called you an elitist ... not by name, mind you ... but you honestly are.

When presented with just a single example, you agreed with what I had posited that if you and I have a disagreement, we should utilize the PM system. A few weeks later, you appear and say you have left the forum posts because of a troll and the Mods.

The date specified is the day after you and I spoke.

I cannot speak to whatever it is you have against the Mods.

If you are leaving because I called you out privately, then that is what it is. You are a grown man and can make up your own mind.

It would be a loss to this forum and honestly, to me. We ALL utilize your work and your question/answer times. That would suck.

We all make bad calls and say things we shouldn’t have. I made a bad call this week in the Tama CW thread (seller didn’t ship) when I missed a major variable. Luckily I have quite a few friends on here and they were quick to point out what I missed.

The difference ... I immediately contacted Tama CW and apologized to the man. I let him know in no uncertain terms I was wrong and I am embarrassed by the miss.

Over a period of many many years, your lack of acknowledging bad calls with me ... even after I have pointed them out to you ... is not a good look.

It took me bringing to light that I hold a doctorate degree before you bothered to message me this last time when I called you an elitist.

I ask a simple question ... when you drop into a discussion and take issue with a word use or a minor point while bypassing the entire subject of a thread, what does your post have to do with the discussion?

Other than to insult me and to absolutely cripple the conversation, what do you accomplish? When you’ve done this through the years, I’ve pointed it out ... with little to no results. As a thinker, which you are, shouldn’t you add to the evidence of the topic?
Wouldn’t digging for an answer be a more appropriate course of action?

If you want to leave, then leave. You are your own man and as such make your own calls. If you do, your assets will be missed. It would be a loss to this forum.

If you want to stay, then stay ... but work on your humility. I have focused on this myself. I’m not as bad as I was, and I’m not where I should be. But I’m focused.

You and I are not here to be friends, but we can darn well be civil and constructive within the established threads ... for all benefits.
 
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stuart s

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What is this, 2 people both yelling at each other "get of my lawn" and "dont touch my drumset"

:dontknow:
 

jansara

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Announcing your departure is like announcing your own entrance.

If you try to make an impression, that's the impression you make.
~Edward Kennedy Ellington
 

swarfrat

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Hey don't stop now Baggy, you're doing great! There's more! I'm thinking about quitting too.
(But mostly because I'm not playing and thinking about selling my kit except for the snare and cymbals)
 

troutstudio

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Zen : love your work. Don’t sweat the static, it’s a byproduct of the times. So many experts on everything. After all, no one knows more about xyz than I do!
 

drummerjohn333

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Zen

You are a good asset to the drum world. But you can be an elitist troll at times.

You and I spoke recently and I presented you with specific examples of where you were way out of line and absolutely destroyed our conversations.

This has happened over the span of years and years. You reached out to me recently because I called you an elitist ... not by name, mind you ... but you honestly are.

When presented with just a single example, you agreed with what I had posited that if you and I have a disagreement, we should utilize the PM system. A few weeks later, you appear and say you have left the forum posts because of a troll and the Mods.

The date specified is the day after you and I spoke.

I cannot speak to whatever it is you have against the Mods.

If you are leaving because I called you out privately, then that is what it is. You are a grown man and can make up your own mind.

It would be a loss to this forum and honestly, to me. We ALL utilize your work and your question/answer times. That would suck.

We all make bad calls and say things we shouldn’t have. I made a bad call this week in the Tama CW thread (seller didn’t ship) when I missed a major variable. Luckily I have quite a few friends on here and they were quick to point out what I missed.

The difference ... I immediately contacted Tama CW and apologized to the man. I let him know in no uncertain terms I was wrong and I am embarrassed by the miss.

Over a period of many many years, your lack of acknowledging bad calls with me ... even after I have pointed them out to you ... is not a good look.

It took me bringing to light that I hold a doctorate degree before you bothered to message me this last time when I called you an elitist.

I ask a simple question ... when you drop into a discussion and take issue with a word use or a minor point while bypassing the entire subject of a thread, what does your post have to do with the discussion?

Other than to insult me and to absolutely cripple the conversation, what do you accomplish? When you’ve done this through the years, I’ve pointed it out ... with little to no results. As a thinker, which you are, shouldn’t you add to the evidence of the topic?
Wouldn’t digging for an answer be a more appropriate course of action?

If you want to leave, then leave. You are your own man and as such make your own calls. If you do, your assets will be missed. It would be a loss to this forum.

If you want to stay, then stay ... but work on your humility. I have focused on this myself. I’m not as bad as I was, and I’m not where I should be. But I’m focused.

You and I are not here to be friends, but we can darn well be civil and constructive within the established threads ... for all benefits.
This reads to be very reasonable. I have no idea what it is all about (the history). Frankly, I don't care - and neither should Steve, and neither should mcjnic (sorry, can't recall your name - you should not care frankly). In a forum with so many contributors - and the nature of the communications - there is always bound to be misunderstandings - and even if when it can not be attributed as such, there is always bound to be differences of opinion - especially when we all reside literally all over the world, in different cultures, then each with our own experiences and thus our own paradigms.

I call on both these members to be wiser - than not. It is a big playground - and when both of you are beloved by many on here - it would be foolish for anyone to leave. If you value forums that meet their purpose, continue to contribute to that success please. We all agree it is worth the efforts of good attitudes. Be wiser than not.

That said - no problem with Steve taking some "time off" of DFO. Hell, I am more concerned about his stated "ill health" than any of his work on cymbal research. Perspective people. I hope you are doing well and get on the mend and back to healthy balance.

I'll say it - God bless you both. (And if either of them are athiests - they should get over it and accept the gesture as pure well wishing :) (and as a matter of fact - See above comments) - be wiser than not.

BTW - thank you mods for your work. Even when there are cases of alleged neglect - shoot - I think we all take them for granted. I know I do - and 9.99 times out of 10 times - any mod on here has been very good and responsive to me. Oh yeah - see my comments above if you are frustrated by our mods poor customer service (which is purely voluntary BTW), and above all - be wiser than not.

Lastly........um, did I mention......be wiser than not.
 

Mcjnic

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This reads to be very reasonable. I have no idea what it is all about (the history). Frankly, I don't care - and neither should Steve, and neither should mcjnic (sorry, can't recall your name - you should not care frankly). In a forum with so many contributors - and the nature of the communications - there is always bound to be misunderstandings - and even if when it can not be attributed as such, there is always bound to be differences of opinion - especially when we all reside literally all over the world, in different cultures, then each with our own experiences and thus our own paradigms.

I call on both these members to be wiser - than not. It is a big playground - and when both of you are beloved by many on here - it would be foolish for anyone to leave. If you value forums that meet their purpose, continue to contribute to that success please. We all agree it is worth the efforts of good attitudes. Be wiser than not.

That said - no problem with Steve taking some "time off" of DFO. Hell, I am more concerned about his stated "ill health" than any of his work on cymbal research. Perspective people. I hope you are doing well and get on the mend and back to healthy balance.

I'll say it - God bless you both. (And if either of them are athiests - they should get over it and accept the gesture as pure well wishing :) (and as a matter of fact - See above comments) - be wiser than not.

BTW - thank you mods for your work. Even when there are cases of alleged neglect - shoot - I think we all take them for granted. I know I do - and 9.99 times out of 10 times - any mod on here has been very good and responsive to me. Oh yeah - see my comments above if you are frustrated by our mods poor customer service (which is purely voluntary BTW), and above all - be wiser than not.

Lastly........um, did I mention......be wiser than not.
Much respect.
For what it is worth, I am ordained. I absolutely get where you are coming from.
 
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