Zero stamps ?

Tama CW

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I see some of the features in a K Istanbul stamp in those. Same with the lathing. But other portions don't fit a KI....such as that 6 pointed star out in the middle of nowhere. It does look Zildjian-ish though.
 

zenstat

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I'm trying to decode your thread title to make sense given your post and I think what you are asking is:

"I have two cymbals with what might be Stamp 0 (based on Rob Scott's site terminology) Turkish K Zildjian cymbals. Are they?"

My answer is maybe, maybe not. It's hard to be sure given what we have so far. There are Italian made Ersatz Ks with a stamp which tries to look like Stamp 0. Here is an example of the real Stamp 0 next to one of the Erastz Ks.

Ersatz-k-stamps.png

Your image is a bit small and the stamp impression a bit incomplete for me to assign a high probability to identification. Somewhere in my repository I think I've got another example of that star with an E in it, but until I find it I'm not sure about what that means. Somebody else might remember the star with an E in it which would save me a lot of time image searching. So that first one might be a 1910ish Turkish K Zildjian.

The second cymbal stamp is different again. It is not Stamp 0. Nor does it fit the other early Constantinople stamp patterns. Given the second cymbal is unlikely to be K Zildjian then that also raises a question about the first one if they were traveling as a pair. :dontknow:

In order to get further I'd need better pictures of the each cymbal from the top and the bottom (whole cymbal) to look at hammering and lathing and bell features, plus a much larger closeup of each stamp. The production features of the cymbal tell more of the story. And unfortunately this site has lowered the size of images to the point where they don't cut it for quality identification. If you start a private conversation with me we can exchange emails (I don't publish mine in clear text to avoid spam) and then full sized images.
 
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zenstat

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Well I found a G in a 5 pointed star

g-in-a-star.png


but that file didn't have links to other information associated with the cymbal. The image is from 2016 and sent me back to 2016 when I was trying to work out a way to help people distinguish Ersatz K stamps from K stamps.

And here's an Electric Sound stamp continuing our theme of 5 pointed stars.

electricsound-stamp.jpg


I really need to take a few months off and sort out my indexing system for image searches. It's creaking at the seams.
 
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zenstat

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Did the G stamps that indicated Gretsch ever have that G in a star?
Not so far. The Gretsch K Zildjian mark is just a very small G and on the under side of the cymbal near the edge and also limited in time period to Old Stamps.

old-stamp-G.png


But the Gretsch G is one reason the "G in a star" got filed away in my system. :icon_e_ugeek:
 

Breezy

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I'm trying to decode your thread title to make sense given your post and I think what you are asking is:

"I have two cymbals with what might be Stamp 0 (based on Rob Scott's site terminology) Turkish K Zildjian cymbals. Are they?"

My answer is maybe, maybe not. It's hard to be sure given what we have so far. There are Italian made Ersatz Ks with a stamp which tries to look like Stamp 0. Here is an example of the real Stamp 0 next to one of the Erastz Ks.

View attachment 405709
Your image is a bit small and the stamp impression a bit incomplete for me to assign a high probability to identification. Somewhere in my repository I think I've got another example of that star with an E in it, but until I find it I'm not sure about what that means. Somebody else might remember the star with an E in it which would save me a lot of time image searching. So that first one might be a 1910ish Turkish K Zildjian.

The second cymbal stamp is different again. It is not Stamp 0. Nor does it fit the other early Constantinople stamp patterns. Given the second cymbal is unlikely to be K Zildjian then that also raises a question about the first one if they were traveling as a pair. :dontknow:

In order to get further I'd need better pictures of the each cymbal from the top and the bottom (whole cymbal) to look at hammering and lathing and bell features, plus a much larger closeup of each stamp. The production features of the cymbal tell more of the story. And unfortunately this site has lowered the size of images to the point where they don't cut it for quality identification. If you start a private conversation with me we can exchange emails (I don't publish mine in clear text to avoid spam) and then full sized images.
Thanks a lot for your answer i will send you soon Some more detailled pics i use them as hihat i use the one with doubt on top and the one 1910ish,?on the bottom the sound is special
 

Breezy

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I'm trying to decode your thread title to make sense given your post and I think what you are asking is:

"I have two cymbals with what might be Stamp 0 (based on Rob Scott's site terminology) Turkish K Zildjian cymbals. Are they?"

My answer is maybe, maybe not. It's hard to be sure given what we have so far. There are Italian made Ersatz Ks with a stamp which tries to look like Stamp 0. Here is an example of the real Stamp 0 next to one of the Erastz Ks.

View attachment 405709
Your image is a bit small and the stamp impression a bit incomplete for me to assign a high probability to identification. Somewhere in my repository I think I've got another example of that star with an E in it, but until I find it I'm not sure about what that means. Somebody else might remember the star with an E in it which would save me a lot of time image searching. So that first one might be a 1910ish Turkish K Zildjian.

The second cymbal stamp is different again. It is not Stamp 0. Nor does it fit the other early Constantinople stamp patterns. Given the second cymbal is unlikely to be K Zildjian then that also raises a question about the first one if they were traveling as a pair. :dontknow:

In order to get further I'd need better pictures of the each cymbal from the top and the bottom (whole cymbal) to look at hammering and lathing and bell features, plus a much larger closeup of each stamp. The production features of the cymbal tell more of the story. And unfortunately this site has lowered the size of images to the point where they don't cut it for quality identification. If you start a private conversation with me we can exchange emails (I don't publish mine in clear text to avoid spam) and then full sized images.
Hey my e-mail is jandemulder0@gmail.com ,hear you soon cheers jan
 

zenstat

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Finally had a chance to examine all the photos closely and I think on balance they probably are K Zildjian Istanbul cymbals. But it is possible that they could be those Italian made cymbals which look like K Zildijian Istanbul. I'm still having intermittant connection problems (especially with Gmail) but when I get a clear run I'll post the photos so others can also have a look.
 

zenstat

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The overall look of the cymbals could pass for early K Zildjian Constantinople.

The stamp on the second cymbal



is a match for this

scott-0.jpg


if you don't worry about that star which has been added. I've followed that style element through several generations

scott-2-repeat-elem.jpg


The stamp on the first cymbal I'm not so sure about.



It could be a partial impression of Stamp 0 showing just the lower portion (starting in the bottom of the red ring in the illustration above and then moving further down). But most examples of Stamp 0 and Stamp 1 are partial and don't show that lower portion. And that guy who puts 6 pointed stars on things added one here as well. It is possible that I just haven't got a complete enough examples of Stamp 0 and it can appear with just the lower portion. I've been meaning to go on the hunt for better examples of Stamp 0. Here is a more complete example showing what should be below and to the left of the other Stamp 0 examples

bh-5.jpg


with obvious additions like the upside down 19 and VV. :icon_e_wink: Obvious additions like that don't seem to bother Bill Hartrick who identifies that as Stamp 0. It seems that ex-factory additions of things happened back then, so I'm not bothered by the six pointed star with a letter in it on the cymbal we are discussing. But remember that in the early days the Italians and K Zildjian were both producing similar cymbals. The Ludwig catalog for 1912-13 had them offering both.

ludwig_1912_13.jpg
 
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JDA

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Everybody gets a vote, but your vote may have more weight if you give the specific details underlying your identification.
specifics? what am I a politician? I "sense" sense they are non Zildjian the shoulders of that cup just too uniform..how the bell is, looks Italian; just a little more precise look overall than Turkish. Would have to compare it in person with an old K Constantinople side by side- ears =sound. May be a noticeable difference. hard to go by eyes when there's no (or not enough) markings. It's the owners job to conclude- or not. His assessment. It's not impregnant on us to decide.
It's a Floater.
 
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JDA

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This picture here sums it up



and the center holes are crazy big for an old K Con.
 

Breezy

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specifics? what am I a politician? I "sense" sense they are non Zildjian the shoulders of that cup just too uniform..how the bell is, looks Italian; just a little more precise look overall than Turkish. Would have to compare it in person with an old K Constantinople side by side- ears =sound. May be a noticeable difference. hard to go by eyes when there's no (or not enough) markings. It's the owners job to conclude- or not. His assessment. It's not impregnant on us to decide.
It's a Floater.
In my ears they r sounding like a very decent oriental meal lots of flavours anyhow i like them a lot
 

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