Zildjian ‘Take Five’ cymbal

Edward

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Can you tell me the difference between the ‘Take Five’ cymbal and the Zildjian 20” A medium ride?
Thanks
 

K.O.

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From the video I watched on these cymbals it appeared that Zildjian took Morello's original cymbal he used on the recording and modeled the Take Five cymbals they made off that. More hammering and lathing ws likely involved trying to achieve that specific sound rather than with a regular Medium ride which just has to fall within a wider parameter of sounds. If you compared 4 or 5 20" medium rides they would very likely sound at least somewhat different from each other (although still within a basic spread) whereas with the Take Five they had a goal to achieve a specific sound and would have to do additional work to achieve that (or at least get closer).

I saw that Take Five offered up for sale here last night and was very tempted to snag it but it would have busted my budget for the month so I didn't pursue it. I see it sold fast, and rightly so.
 

idrum4fun

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Hi KO!

Yes, I wanted that cymbal, too! Sent a PM, but it already sold! I've had a 20" Sabian Medium Ride for decades, and while I do like it, it's on the heavy side at 2574 grams. The Take 5 cymbal being offered was only 2166 grams! I do see that Memphis Drum Shop is currently showing both a 2208 gram and 2210 gram versions. I need to listen to both and see if they'll work for me!

-Mark
 

Tama CW

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Why not get the "real" Take 5 cymbal in a 1950's A at 2000-2175 gm? There are lots of them out there in the $80-$150 range. I'd bet a number of them sound similar to Joe's....and probably closer in tone than the remake.
 
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Seb77

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Good question.
Some of the redesigned A medium ride might be even lighter than 2150g. I played one soon after they came out that did remind me of the Take Five sound, but the bell might have been a bit high/piercing. Not that you really hear the bell on Take Five, just compared to some older As.
Some of the A Avedis series might also sound similar.
 

Edward

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I got an answer from an expert that has played them both. They are very similar but the ‘take five’ has vintage style Cie lathing making it slightly darker and having less projection (more mellow). Listening to the videos I would agree. Not sure which I like better!
 

K.O.

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Why not get the "real" Take 5 cymbal in a 1950's A at 2000-2175 gm? There are lots of them out there in the $80-$150 range. I'd bet a number of them sound similar to Joe's....and probably closer in tone than the remake.
That was the thought that kept me from jumping on this. I have a few of older 20" rides in the 2000 gram range, plus a couple of similar Sabians and also a Zildjian & Cie vintage ride. Not to mention a 20" Bettis that blows them all out of the water. As much as I thought it would be cool to have the Take Five model as a thing I wasn't sure I'd ever actually play it so better to let someone else have it that will...that and the shaky finances at the moment.
 

Edward

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That was the thought that kept me from jumping on this. I have a few of older 20" rides in the 2000 gram range, plus a couple of similar Sabians and also a Zildjian & Cie vintage ride. Not to mention a 20" Bettis that blows them all out of the water. As much as I thought it would be cool to have the Take Five model as a thing I wasn't sure I'd ever actually play it so better to let someone else have it that will...that and the shaky finances at the moment.
 

Edward

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The Take Five sells for the same price as the A ride. I think the price for a used one is going to come down as more of them circulate.
 

cymbal.wiki

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I think you'll find that the cymbal JM played/used on "Take Five" was actually in fact a Paiste 602,
As he became&was an Paiste endorser in the 60s.
Yes, since 1967.


But this exact cymbal :icon_e_wink: is the one on the original recording of Take 5 in 1959 according to the person who gifted it to the Memphis Drum Shop.



There are other recordings, and some may use Paiste ride cymbals.
 
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deegeebee

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I got an answer from an expert that has played them both. They are very similar but the ‘take five’ has vintage style Cie lathing making it slightly darker and having less projection (more mellow). Listening to the videos I would agree. Not sure which I like better!
The take 5 reissue in the promo video looks and sounds a lot more like my A Zildjian & Cie Vintage 20" (not vintage) than it does the actual JM ride. I certainly support the idea of trying out some 50s As, but the AZ&Cie are nice as well (especially the hats!) and can also be found for cheap (especially the 20") and are pretty consistent in weight if I recall correcrly from zen's data.
 

K.O.

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Take 5 was on the Time Out album recorded and released in 1959. I believe Joe's switch to Paiste was tied to Ludwig's distribution deal with that company starting in the mid 60's. I'm not sure you could even easily find Paiste cymbals to buy in the US in 1959, considering they had only opened their Swiss plant two years prior to that.

Plus they have the actual cymbal in hand...and it's a Zildjian.
 

Morello Man

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Since Morello used more than one ride, it seems (as the track Pick Up Sticks demonstrates a different sound...same session(s), same studio, same engineer), who’s to say which ride he used on Take Five? There’d be no reason for him to set aside that cymbal (neither he nor the other members of the quartet, of course, had any idea that the song would be a hit) nor mark it nor set it aside. Who knows what happened to the actual ride he used when recording Take Five? Maybe he sold it, maybe he gave it away, maybe he lost it.
 

lossforgain

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Since Morello used more than one ride, it seems (as the track Pick Up Sticks demonstrates a different sound...same session(s), same studio, same engineer), who’s to say which ride he used on Take Five? There’d be no reason for him to set aside that cymbal (neither he nor the other members of the quartet, of course, had any idea that the song would be a hit) nor mark it nor set it aside. Who knows what happened to the actual ride he used when recording Take Five? Maybe he sold it, maybe he gave it away, maybe he lost it.
Sure, all of that is possible, except that there seems to be real provenance established with the cymbal that was used to create the reproduction. No first-hand knowledge from me, I'm just going by what the retailer and Zildjian are both saying.
 

JazzDrumGuy

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Interesting that there are 2 different ride sounds on the same album......Glad to know it was a Zildjian on Take 5 and not a Paiste, since I am a Z guy. Now I will add a vintage 50's 20" A to my list of pursuits, although I have a few.

I don't like the A & Cie lathing....too bad Paul F. couldn't just make it look right, too. Great playing by Riley, as always, but the "original" is more mellow and a darker crash and there's no way you get that in a newer cymbal.....
 


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