Zildjian 70's hollow logo deep ride. Do I clean it or not?

hector48

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I just bought a used Zildjian deep ride with the hollow logo. So, it's probably a late 70's cymbal.
It does have a somewhat darkened finish due to age and dirt.
Typically, I polish my Paiste cymbals and Zildjian A customs.
However, I question whether or not to polish this vintage ride.
The logo is somewhat faded already. So, polish will only fade it more.
And will I remove some of the "mojo" by trying to make it look like new again?
I think once I start cleaning, I'll keep going until it looks bright again.
Which, in this case, will be a lot of work, and may actually remove metal and affect the original intended sound.
What to do?
 

drumstuff66

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I've had the same dilemma with the vintage cymbals I've picked up. I just give them the once over with some Dawn and warm water - removes some surface dirt & grime without affecting the "mojo" imo - then I just wipe them down with a dry cloth after gigs or a couple times a week on the practice kit at home...
 

Tama CW

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I don't think polishing removes much, if any metal. And by removing 40 yrs of grime you're probably getting the cymbal back to the original "brighter" sound it once had. Heavy patina can really darken up the sound of old cymbals. If you like the sound of this heavy ride now...you may not like it as much as it brightens up from cleaning....or you may like it a lot more.

If this were mine I'd do the same as Drumstuff66 and preserve the remaining logo. If you have a 70's die stamp on that cymbal (no 3 dots) then removing the logos still places it in the 1970's....and most people would assume it was pre-1978 and the value staying about the same. If you have an 80's stamp on it, then it would morph into a post-1982 cymbal in the eyes of most players, potentially losing 10-15% in value. Hollow logos are a fairly select and collectible group having only been made from 1978-1982.

In the end it's your call to maximize your enjoyment. And either way there's not a huge difference.
 

hector48

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I just received it last night and didn't get to play it yet.
So, I will try it out, untouched.
If I decide it's too dark and dull sounding as is, then I'll try cleaning it up.
 

mlayton

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I use the same process as drumstuff66. I don't do any scrubbing or polishing.
 

zenstat

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Is this a Deep Ride which still has the ink saying so?

I'd be really interested to see pics of the cymbal from the top and bottom to check the hammering style, plus a pic of the trademark die stamp (could be 70s stamp could be 80s CO. stamp), and the diameter and the weight. The Deep Ride came out in 1979 (in 20" and 22") and there are some with quite interesting hammering as if Avedis Zildjian were experimenting with some technical aspects which would get them to the Early American Ks. The hollow ink saying Zildjian on the bottom came out in 1978 so in theory all Deep Rides started out life with that hollow ink on the bottom. Although the hollow ink Zidljian was replaced with solid about the time of the CO. stamp (mid 1982), there are a few examples where the hollow ink Zildjian is found on a cymbal with a CO. stamp. This is generally the case for all transitions from one production era to another. For each transition there are a few cymbals which show mixed attributes. And the Deep Ride comes at an interesting time which spans a few different changes.

This is all part of documenting the different models and how to tell them apart, plus what years they were in production. Once the model ink has gone it isn't as easy to tell, so more information is always welcome.

And I also don't generally polish cymbals. I just clean, which is different as others have pointed out.

Thanks in advance.

Steve the Cymbal Student
 
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Seb77

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I don't think polishing removes much, if any metal.
Once you start using "metal polish", you're applying abrasives which indeed remove metal, leaving the cymbal surface smoother than original. Brilliant finish cymbals won't change that much, but regular finish cymbals lose the roughness caused by the lathe blades.

I would remove dirt with warm water and soap and maybe a non-metal brush, and otherwise leave it alone. You could buy a reissue Deep ride form around 2003 if you wanted a newer-sounding cymbals.

I would be interested in weight and sound. I have a 20"+ Deep ride that is so heavy it's not funny any more! Good sounding and feeling cymbal, just not made for the kind of gigs I have. One of my collector's items, so to speak.
 

jptrickster

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I like them clean and sparkly. If that’s factory ink i’ll Probably leave it be. rarely would I ever clean the underside.
Maybe brighten up the tone if removing a lot of dirt and grime.
If it looks like a crime scene
it’s getting polished real good
 

NewBeat

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Don't lose the "DEEP RIDE" ink, if it's there; otherwise, it becomes hard for the casual observer to distinguish the cleaned cymbal from a generic, heavy, thin stamp.
 

hector48

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I'll try to get some photos this evening.
Regarding the "hammering", I don't think this one is hammered at all.
I clearly see the lathe grooves, but not hammer marks.
Same goes for my original deep ride that I got back in 1980.
In fact, none of my A. Zildjians from that era were hammered.
 

hector48

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I have put blue masking tape on cymbals over ink I didn't want removed when cleaning the cymbal. Works pretty well...
Thought about doing this, but was concerned that the tape adhesive might also lift some ink, when the tape is removed.
I guess if it works for it's intended use (painted drywall and trim) then it "should" be fine. However, paint is more rigid than ink.
 

Seb77

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I'll try to get some photos this evening.
Regarding the "hammering", I don't think this one is hammered at all.
I clearly see the lathe grooves, but not hammer marks.
Same goes for my original deep ride that I got back in 1980.
In fact, none of my A. Zildjians from that era were hammered.
Some As might look unhammered, but with the right lighting, you should be able to see it. I actually bought mine based partly on the spectacular photo (artifical lighting, maybe one spot only). In anaother, daylight, pic it looks completely smooth.
 

hector48

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Thanks so much for the ad post. Very interesting. And I do see some faint hammering in the shadows of the ad picture.
You know, when I got my first Zildjian ride for Xmas in 1980, my instructor brought the Deep Ride, and some other Z ride (either a rock ride or medium) to my house. That was it. Try these two, and pick one. So, glad one of those was the Deep Ride. And I picked it, without any prior cymbal knowledge whatsoever (I was only a 13 yrs old). To this day, it is my reference point for what a good ride should sound like.
 
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Seb77

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Here's another thread, with pics. Just noticed I keep repeating myself ;)
 
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zenstat

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Here's another thread, with pics. Just noticed I keep repeating myself ;)
I take it as a good sign when we are consistent in our posts. My posts change a little bit as more evidence comes to hand, but I've been on the "we would benefit from paying more attention to models" and including bell size and shape, profile (curvature), and taper (metal thinning towards the outer edge) for a few years now. I was actually thinking of the hammering on yours when I first posted.

When the


model pages are filled in, the Deep Ride entry will include ads, sound files, pictures, prices, and as much info as I've managed to collect up. And so on for all other models. But not this week. :glasses8:

deep-ride-ad.jpg


Note that the above ad was from the time when Zildjian were using "taper" in the way I use "profile" (curvature of the bow) so they are talking about a flat profile. The changing usage over time between "taper" (as in metal thinning towards the edge or the oft used phrase most of the weight is in the bell) and "profile" (as in flat profile or not much curvature of the bow) hasn't helped. As far as hammering goes, yes all A Zildjian cymbals have hammering, but how visible it is varies across the production eras. My overview needs updating to include further research but it is still a good place to start if I do say so myself:

http://black.net.nz/avedis/hammering.html << clicky link
 
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Bri6366

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Thanks so much for the ad post. Very interesting. And I do see some faint hammering in the shadows of the ad picture.
You know, when I got my first Zildjian ride for Xmas in 1980, my instructor brought the Deep Ride, and some other Z ride (either a rock ride or medium) to my house. That was it. Try these two, and pick one. So, glad one of those was the Deep Ride. And I picked it, without any prior cymbal knowledge whatsoever (I was only a 13 yrs old). To this day, it is my reference point for what a good ride should sound like.
I also bought my first Zildjian ride at that same time. It was a 22" Ping Ride.
 

hector48

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Both of my Deep Rides 20-1/4" Dia, measured across the bottom. When I checked my more modern heavy K ride, it was actually 20". So, perhaps they made the older rides a little oversized? Or the flat profile deep ride just naturally made it a little wider? Also, the Zildjian stamps are very faint and hard to read. What is meant by the "three dots" in the Arabic script vs. no three dots? Does that tell us something specific about the production date?
 

zenstat

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The much talked about 3 dots



are commonly misunderstood as the way to tell a 60s trademark stamp from the 50s or the 70s. This isn't actually the full story. The more complete story is here


Slightly oversized and undersized cymbals are known from different production periods. This might be partly related to how much the cymbal profile is raised through hammering. It will also interact with the production era because the accuracy of trimming (which is done before hammering) was lower before the 60s. Then in the 70s you have another production change coming in with pressing into shape which raises the profile in a different way to hammering.

A picture of your cymbal is worth 1000 of my words. Preferably from the top and the bottom in "dramatic" side lighting so we can see the hammering and lathing. Then a picture of the trademark stamp if you can manage it.
 


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