Zildjian K Orchestral weight?

blueshadow

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Anyone know what the weight on K Orchestral suspended cymbals are/were? Medium? Thin? etc Looking at a 96 20 " K .
 

blueshadow

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Found one on reverb sold that said it was medium weight but no actual weight listed so hard to tell. Zildjian site has the newer ones listed as Medium Thin and the pairs as heavy....still not much to go by, I'll probably pass on it anyways....It's on ebay for $185 shipped if anyone wants it ;)
 

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only bit of note about orchestral cymbals that stayed with me was Z saying "all partials" were exploited (open) not a controlled drumset sound; but that could work.
So, besides the weight +/-, hi or lo, you had that..
 

Tama CW

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I had an EAK orchestra K for about 25 yrs. Barely played it. Always felt it was just too open. It roars. And the stick was pretty bright for what should have been a medium ride weight of 2357 gms. The stick tended to get lost when the volume came out. But should work perfectly fine for a small ensemble in a small room. The symphonic crash on this was huge of course. I ended up selling it on Reverb last year to a guy who had a couple of them and loved them....using them in both in orchestras and his kit. He couldn't believe there was an essentially NOS one out there from the original owner. It looked pretty close to new as it had very few hours of play on it....contributing to the brightness. I didn't know much about K's back in the day other than Steve Gadd and others in Modern Drummer magazine all said I should own one. Should have picked a jazz EAK....but my local store only had that one. When doing my research on EAK Orchestras I combed the internet to find as many as I could. I didn't even find a dozen total. IIRC most were in the 2300-2600 gm range with 2300-2500 being the norm....so medium weights. My cymbal was probably right in the middle of the pack. Can't say how my EAK orchestra weight research transfers over to the laser stamp K orchestras.

Orchestra EAK my old one

About once a year I'd play it for half an hour and realize it just wasn't what I wanted. I've had other EAK rides in the 2550-2675 range that were far more controlled and preferred those in the kit. I currently have a modern K dark custom 20" that does everything I need (2306 gm). If I had to do an EAK Orchestra again I think a heavier one with some good patina would give the best results - around 2500 gm. I also experimented with mine by applying anywhere from 1 to 6 duct tape strips of 3" in length each. With 3-4 strips it reduced much of the "extra" wash when riding. So they can be tamed somewhat.
 
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blueshadow

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I had an EAK orchestra K for about 25 yrs. Barely played it. Always felt it was just too open. It roars. And the stick was pretty bright for what should have been a medium ride weight of 2357 gms. The stick tended to get lost when the volume came out. But should work perfectly fine for a small ensemble in a small room. The symphonic crash on this was huge of course. I ended up selling it on Reverb last year to a guy who had a couple of them and loved them....using them in both in orchestras and his kit. He couldn't believe there was an essentially NOS one out there from the original owner. It looked pretty close to new as it had very few hours of play on it....contributing to the brightness. I didn't know much about K's back in the day other than Steve Gadd and others in Modern Drummer magazine all said I should own one. Should have picked a jazz EAK....but my local store only had that one. When doing my research on EAK Orchestras I combed the internet to find as many as I could. I didn't even find a dozen total. IIRC most were in the 2300-2600 gm range with 2300-2500 being the norm....so medium weights. My cymbal was probably right in the middle of the pack.

Orchestra EAK my old one

About once a year I'd play it for half an hour and realize it just wasn't what I wanted. I've had other EAK rides in the 2550-2675 range that were far more controlled and preferred those in the kit. I currently have a modern K dark custom 20" that does everything I need (2306 gm). If I had to do an EAK Orchestra again I think a heavier one with some good patina would give the best results - around 2500 gm. I also experimented with mine by applying anywhere from 1 to 6 duct tape strips of 3" in length each. With 3-4 strips it reduced much of the "extra" wash when riding. So they can be tamed somewhat.
Thanks for that...sounds like it would be a lot like my crash ride, I had just a K ride from the 90's that I should of kept. Here's the ebay link:

IF serial
 

blueshadow

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Well couldn't stand it any longer. This was still available for a buy it now $185 shipped so I took the plunge. I like the slightly more obscure cymbals for my small collection of IAK's. Though Zen argues and I suppose I agree this shouldn't be IAK since it has a serial...but is before the, in my opinion newer ugly model name logos. I'll get a weight and soundfile when it arives (think it high time I buy a scale and weigh my collection) This one may get rivets eventually depending on how close it sounds to my crash ride.
 

zenstat

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Congrats. Nice looking one. So far the weighs I've got for these are 2151g, 2357g, 2468g, 2487g for 20" and one weight of 1816g for an 18". So I look forward to another weight. Every little bit helps.

I don't argue that the advent of serial numbers is the most important attribute in naming a production era. It's just that when the ink is removed you don't have have it to work with. The lathing style lasts. The hammering style lasts. The presence of a laser stamp lasts. That makes the presence of a laser stamp useful and practical but doesn't guarantee it is important. This example also helps show that ink changes and stamp changes don't happen in lock step. Such is the buddha nature of the world -- which suggests polythetic classifications rather than stereotypes is the path to right understanding.
 

Tama CW

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That Orchestra K is very clean. Most of them are well abused. Good price for delivery too.
 

blueshadow

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Got the cymbal this evening...no chance to put a stick on it yet but feels heavier than my crash ride which is what I was hoping for
 

blueshadow

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K Orchestra IF serial year 1996 5" bell
K crash ride II serial year 1999 5.5" bell

edit for serial number correction
 
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zenstat

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Crash Ride on the right in the profile pic? The bell looks taller, which would be the usual case for the Special Cup die vs the Medium Cup die. I have this quote from Paul Francis on my EAK page

You will be able to tell by the bell size. The Jazz ride and the Crash ride have a large bell. The same bell was used in the K Custom Dry Complex Rides (Bill Stewart). The regular K Rides had a flatter/lower bell. Also the Jazz ride had a very high shape (akin to an umbrella), again similar to the K Custom Dry Complex. The crash ride would have had a curvature in between the ride and the Jazz ride which would give a good stick and crash sound. The ride will have the lowest curvature out of all.
It covers both bell size and profile as ways to tell models apart. In the absence of specific evidence I'm presuming these bells are the Medium and Special Cups in use. At some time other cups were added to the repertoire (probably with the arrival of the K Cons) and now there are lots. But the 80s to 90s were simpler times. If somebody reading this happens to have a 20" A Zildjian Crash Ride and K Zildjian Crash Ride (or Jazz Ride) you could have a close look for us. Petty please.

I'm thinking the profile of the Orchestral is about the same as the Crash Ride. But that could just be my eyes (and brain) not picking up the right clues. What do you think having them to hand? Orchestral profile higher? lower? same? as Crash Ride. I don't suppose you still have a K Ride handing around?

But weight there's more... :icon_e_wink:
 

blueshadow

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Yes Crash Ride is on the right....great info as always. I'll get them both back out again and try to get a better profile pic, the Orch seems to be flatter than the crash ride but could be the difference in bell size. I do have a 22" K Ride as well.
 

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