Zildjian Ride Question - Woody Stick but not Crazy Wash for Pop/Rock?

Topsy Turvy

Very well Known Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2017
Messages
827
Reaction score
283
Location
United States
Long time Istanbul Agop owner here, so pardon my ignorance. I am considering venturing into Zildjian cymbals again after being away from them for the past 20 years or so.

Let me start by saying, I play pop/rock, singer-songwriter, and some soul stuff. (Gigging -well I used to gig- and recording.) I'm looking for a 22" ride that has a woody stick that is pronounced. I'd like a low pitched wash that doesn't overwhelm the stick sound. I would definitely prefer something with character and grittiness that is crashable.

I have an Istanbul Agop 30th Anniversary ride that is wonderful, but it doesn't have enough stick sound. The wash is all that seems to be heard from 10 feet away, regardless of what stick I use or where I play on the ride. Near field, the thing sounds fantastic though. I love some of the Constantinople rides that Zildjian makes, but I'm worried that they don't have enough stick sound. I definitely DON'T want a pingy ride or a rock ride.

I have set of 15" Zildjian hats from the early 60s that are phenomenal. They are smoky sounding but with enough definition to work in live situations. I'd love to find something that works with the hats.

Any ideas?
 
Last edited:

JDA

DFO Star
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
18,423
Reaction score
7,165
Location
Jeannette, Pa.
Seems everyone picks the K Constantinople Medium Thin Low 22"
or for less money could find/look for a 60s Avedis 22" in the 2500/2600g range.

that's all i got.
otherwise you're looking at 22" old K New Stamp.
see what others say.
 
Last edited:

JDA

DFO Star
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
18,423
Reaction score
7,165
Location
Jeannette, Pa.
Long time Istanbul Agop owner here, so pardon my ignorance. I am considering venturing into Zildjian cymbals again after being away from them for the past 20 years or so.

Let me start by saying, I play pop/rock, singer-songwriter, and some soul stuff. (Gigging -well I used to gig- and recording.) I'm looking for a 22" ride that has a woody stick that is pronounced. I'd like a low pitched wash that doesn't overwhelm the stick sound. I would definitely prefer something with character and grittiness that is crashable.

I have an Istanbul Agop 30th Anniversary ride that is wonderful, but it doesn't have enough stick sound. The wash is all that seems to be heard from 10 feet away, regardless of what stick I use or where I play on the ride. Near field, the thing sounds fantastic though. I love some of the Constantinople rides that Zildjian makes, but I'm worried that they don't have enough stick sound. I definitely DON'T want a pingy ride or a rock ride.

I have set of 15" Zildjian hats from the early 60s that are phenomenal. They are smoky sounding but with enough definition to work in live situations. I'd love to find something that works with the hats.

Any ideas?
You might go for this... seems deal made/trade

 

Tama CW

DFO Veteran
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2018
Messages
2,351
Reaction score
1,496
Location
SE Connecticut
I think there are 1950's 22 in trans, large stamps, and small stamps that could do what you need. Might have to go through a few first. All the A's have wash, just a matter of the ratio you demand.

I've owned 4 EAK rides and would say they have considerable wash as well. Again, there are ones you'll find better than the others. The heavier ones do have the most stick.
 

CC Cirillo

Very well Known Member
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
922
Reaction score
1,440
Location
Northern California
If you are willing to come down from a 22 I’d suggest one of these. Just a regular K Ride. Good wood on top of a frijoles con manteca. As they are not glamorous, they can be found at a good price.
Woody:
E8C3DBD3-743F-44C6-8FCB-F5C0E8A8D551.jpeg


Darky:
D10AB023-EA44-40C1-83AB-EA25479B9497.jpeg
 

Seb77

DFO Veteran
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
2,538
Reaction score
1,127
Location
Germany
The thing with the "woody stick sound", the click, is: it really comes from the stick, it is the stick vibrating that you hear, it doesn't project "through" the cymbal. So, it is much stronger heard on the player's side, or in overhead mics, than out front.
In order to get a clear rythmic definition out front, you need a certain metallic attack in there that projects over the band. If you avoid this completely for the sake of the mainly woody attack sound up close, you end up with a lack of definition out front. Still, you can get this "zing" form thinner cymbals as well.

For a thinner cymbal with less wash I would look into partly lathed ones, the K Special Dry, or the High Definition ride. The discontinued Dark Complex and Dark Thin rides were also unlathed. Other dry sounding cymbals would be the Dry Complex (Bill Stewart) rdes, but they're very trashy sounding.
With fully lathed cymbals, a lower pitch might sound like "less wash" in the mix, as it is less present to the human ear, and sits below the presence of many other instruments.
Last not least, the stick and playing style can change the sound quite a bit in that respect, for example a "zingy" cymbal can be made to sound less metallic by angling the stick more.
 

unregisteredalien

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2020
Messages
202
Reaction score
278
Location
Melbourne, Australia
The thing with the "woody stick sound", the click, is: it really comes from the stick, it is the stick vibrating that you hear, it doesn't project "through" the cymbal. So, it is much stronger heard on the player's side, or in overhead mics, than out front.
In order to get a clear rythmic definition out front, you need a certain metallic attack in there that projects over the band. If you avoid this completely for the sake of the mainly woody attack sound up close, you end up with a lack of definition out front. Still, you can get this "zing" form thinner cymbals as well.
I love being reminded about stuff like this.

Drums are so cool.
 

poco rit.

Well-Known Member
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2019
Messages
149
Reaction score
124
Location
Texas
Maybe the Special Dry stuff? Theres a 21” and 23” ride. It wasnt the cymbal for me, the crash was a little too quick for me, but for what your describing it may be worth checkin out. Regarding K Cons, the stick sound is beautiful when recording, so for your singer/songwriter stuff i think theyd be great. In a rock setting the stick does get lost a bit. But personally im ok with that. If im playing rock, then im sort of crash riding the ride anyway.
 

Topsy Turvy

Very well Known Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2017
Messages
827
Reaction score
283
Location
United States
Seems everyone picks the K Constantinople Medium Thin Low 22"
or for less money could find/look for a 60s Avedis 22" in the 2500/2600g range.

that's all i got.
otherwise you're looking at 22" old K New Stamp.
see what others say.
Thank you very much. I just listened to some samples and I love Constantinople, but it really sounds like the stick gets lost once things get a bit louder.

I do like the warm, low wash. I’d love this if it had more stick sound.
 

Topsy Turvy

Very well Known Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2017
Messages
827
Reaction score
283
Location
United States
You might go for this... seems deal made/trade

I did see that. I was worried about how thin it was, and since there is no sound file or video clip I didn’t see a point to pursue it.

How consistent were 22” Zildjian A rides in the 60s in terms of sound?
 

Topsy Turvy

Very well Known Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2017
Messages
827
Reaction score
283
Location
United States
I think there are 1950's 22 in trans, large stamps, and small stamps that could do what you need. Might have to go through a few first. All the A's have wash, just a matter of the ratio you demand.

I've owned 4 EAK rides and would say they have considerable wash as well. Again, there are ones you'll find better than the others. The heavier ones do have the most stick.
I have been thinking about these. They are tricky to find though.
 

Topsy Turvy

Very well Known Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2017
Messages
827
Reaction score
283
Location
United States
The thing with the "woody stick sound", the click, is: it really comes from the stick, it is the stick vibrating that you hear, it doesn't project "through" the cymbal. So, it is much stronger heard on the player's side, or in overhead mics, than out front.
In order to get a clear rythmic definition out front, you need a certain metallic attack in there that projects over the band. If you avoid this completely for the sake of the mainly woody attack sound up close, you end up with a lack of definition out front. Still, you can get this "zing" form thinner cymbals as well.

For a thinner cymbal with less wash I would look into partly lathed ones, the K Special Dry, or the High Definition ride. The discontinued Dark Complex and Dark Thin rides were also unlathed. Other dry sounding cymbals would be the Dry Complex (Bill Stewart) rdes, but they're very trashy sounding.
With fully lathed cymbals, a lower pitch might sound like "less wash" in the mix, as it is less present to the human ear, and sits below the presence of many other instruments.
Last not least, the stick and playing style can change the sound quite a bit in that respect, for example a "zingy" cymbal can be made to sound less metallic by angling the stick more.
I really appreciate you taking the time to explain this. It actually makes a lot of sense. In that regard, I guess I would take more of a wash sound. I do want the stick sound to be prominent though. I listened to the cymbals you mentioned and they are too clangy, generally speaking.

Is there a cymbal that has a somewhat controlled sound, like the medium thin low Constantinople, but with a clearer, more prominent stick sound?
 

Topsy Turvy

Very well Known Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2017
Messages
827
Reaction score
283
Location
United States
The new Zildjian 21" K Sweet Ride is a great cymbal that'll fit those genres and crashes very well too. Although they're fairly consistent, try them out, because some sound better than others.

There is a lot to like about this one, but it sounds too rock for what I’m looking for.
 


Top