Zildjian Ride Question - Woody Stick but not Crazy Wash for Pop/Rock?

poco rit.

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+1 for the K Ride. They are very middle-of-the road in a good way...between wet & dry, not overly aggressive, same for the bell & stick attack. The hammering is subtle too, so it's not overly complex in tone. When I A/B this against my washy old 20" A it sits great with all my dark, washy HHX crashes. With the A a lot of definition from my crashes gets eaten up. The K Ride is much easier to control, but can still hander a heavier gig easily. Here's mine in action:
Dang that woman's head is like a foot away from your ride!
 

funkypoodle

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Dang that woman's head is like a foot away from your ride!
We're all piled in pretty tight, but it's more like 2 & half feet! & she's tough and good natured! You can't really tell but that's a 12x8 & 14x10 Rogers, a Cajon for a kick & a supersensitive, all piled between two tables.
 

Topsy Turvy

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That would be my suggestion too. They have high stick to wash-ratio.

Thanks to everyone who has suggested the Constantinople Medium ride. In the clips I have listened to, it sounds a bit stiff and not very musical. (Maybe a bit clangy? That's too harsh a description though.) What has been your experience with these in actual gigging situations?
 

Topsy Turvy

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+1 for the K Ride. They are very middle-of-the road in a good way...between wet & dry, not overly aggressive, same for the bell & stick attack. The hammering is subtle too, so it's not overly complex in tone. When I A/B this against my washy old 20" A it sits great with all my dark, washy HHX crashes. With the A a lot of definition from my crashes gets eaten up. The K Ride is much easier to control, but can still hander a heavier gig easily. Here's mine in action:
Great sounding band and nice playing. What happens with that ride when things "pick up" and get a bit rowdy?
 

Topsy Turvy

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I lay into it a bit more in the last 30 seconds
Thank you for that! You know what's impressive? The intensity went up with the band, but the volume did not. So many bands equate intensity with volume. I could clearly hear that ride throughout the song, but it never overpowered the music.
 

funkypoodle

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Thank you for that! You know what's impressive? The intensity went up with the band, but the volume did not. So many bands equate intensity with volume. I could clearly hear that ride throughout the song, but it never overpowered the music.
This bar has had neighbour problems, so I've worked extra hard to create that "illusion of louder". Posture & breathing go along way.
 

CC Cirillo

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Thanks to everyone who has suggested the Constantinople Medium ride. In the clips I have listened to, it sounds a bit stiff and not very musical. (Maybe a bit clangy? That's too harsh a description though.) What has been your experience with these in actual gigging situations?
I have a 20” K Con Medium. I have not gigged with it yet but have used it only at rehearsals in small rooms where I could not let it open up. For me it is not a pop/rock cymbal if that is what you are looking for.

What you may be hearing in those demos is the fact that to my ear it is not a clean cymbal. It wasn’t intended to be. It is musical. It’s a very good New Orleans brass band but the tuba player is a little drunk.

Having shedded with it a bit over the last few weeks in a big practice space with some sound treatment on the walls for me it sounds best at slightly more raucous volumes. But it will max out. (As I don’t okay jazz) I think it’d be great for trashy blues. It’s a slide guitar ride.

I think it lacks a little in the ping side if you are trying to drive rock or pop. It’s got a lot of atmosphere. Mine is about 1900 grams so I plan on using it as a left side ride that I can crash.
 

CC Cirillo

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Great sounding band and nice playing. What happens with that ride when things "pick up" and get a bit rowdy?
Below the midline of my K Ride, there is dark groovy wash. Not super defined sticking but buttery. From the midline upward towards the bell my K provides more articulation and ping (as F. Poodle so artfully displays).

It’s quite versatile and does soft and does loud.
 

KB MAN

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Long time Istanbul Agop owner here, so pardon my ignorance. I am considering venturing into Zildjian cymbals again after being away from them for the past 20 years or so.

Let me start by saying, I play pop/rock, singer-songwriter, and some soul stuff. (Gigging -well I used to gig- and recording.) I'm looking for a 22" ride that has a woody stick that is pronounced. I'd like a low pitched wash that doesn't overwhelm the stick sound. I would definitely prefer something with character and grittiness that is crashable.

I have an Istanbul Agop 30th Anniversary ride that is wonderful, but it doesn't have enough stick sound. The wash is all that seems to be heard from 10 feet away, regardless of what stick I use or where I play on the ride. Near field, the thing sounds fantastic though. I love some of the Constantinople rides that Zildjian makes, but I'm worried that they don't have enough stick sound. I definitely DON'T want a pingy ride or a rock ride.

I have set of 15" Zildjian hats from the early 60s that are phenomenal. They are smoky sounding but with enough definition to work in live situations. I'd love to find something that works with the hats.

Any ideas?
Long time Istanbul Agop owner here, so pardon my ignorance. I am considering venturing into Zildjian cymbals again after being away from them for the past 20 years or so.

Let me start by saying, I play pop/rock, singer-songwriter, and some soul stuff. (Gigging -well I used to gig- and recording.) I'm looking for a 22" ride that has a woody stick that is pronounced. I'd like a low pitched wash that doesn't overwhelm the stick sound. I would definitely prefer something with character and grittiness that is crashable.

I have an Istanbul Agop 30th Anniversary ride that is wonderful, but it doesn't have enough stick sound. The wash is all that seems to be heard from 10 feet away, regardless of what stick I use or where I play on the ride. Near field, the thing sounds fantastic though. I love some of the Constantinople rides that Zildjian makes, but I'm worried that they don't have enough stick sound. I definitely DON'T want a pingy ride or a rock ride.

I have set of 15" Zildjian hats from the early 60s that are phenomenal. They are smoky sounding but with enough definition to work in live situations. I'd love to find something that works with the hats.

Any ideas?
It sounds like we like the same things in our rides...Try out the K Con Medium Ride and the K Con Renaissance. I own both and use them in different situations.

The Renaissance crosses over into louder settings more effectively.

The Medium has the better woody stick sound and a lower pitched roar (Not a wash... a roar) when you lean into it but that does not cut through as well when playing with others.

The Renaissance has a stronger bell and is higher pitched.

Both are crashable but the medium does not really cut through... If you are playing at the house or studio you will probably prefer the Medium but if performing, the Renaissance will fit the situation better.

Best of luck and let us know what you ultimately decide!
 

Gordogarbo

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I have mostly Zildjian Cymbals, I like big rides but I prefer them on the washy side. These are what I have and what they sound like. I think they’d all be worth checking out for you. 24” Kerope ride, the pingiest of the rides I have, but by no means pingy, lol. It’s dark over all with a slightly more metallic and pronounced stick sound, but it still remains pretty woody. It’s the least washy of my rides but still builds up a decent roar/wash when you lay into it. Probably the least crashable of my rides. Then I have a 24K Light, it’s is the darkest and trashiest of my rides, very woody stick sounds but this thing roars and wobbles when you lay into it. I think of it as a woody trashy smoky sound. Very crashable but pretty washy. 22”K light ride, this one is a little thicker then the 24, it’s a little brighter and a lot less trashy. Brighter stick sounds and less wash but still very crashable. 22” K Con overhammered thin ride, super woody stick sound, less sustain and more complex wash then the others cause of the hammering. It’s pretty thin though so it washes out a bit if you lay into. This is what I tend to play the most on its own as it makes a great crash ride. The kerope series might fit what you’re looking for. They tend to be dark to medium, and woody to pingy depending on the thickness. I think my favorite ride ever was a 24” kerope that I played in a store, I didn’t buy it unfortunately though and mine is amazing but no it as good as my memory of that one. I’ve also played two 22’s that I considered absolute duds and one other that sounded fantastic. Idk if that variety is characteristic of the whole line, but the good ones I heard were amazing. Maybe I’ll make a video of all my rides for comparison..
 

Gordogarbo

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Here’s a random video of a 22” kerope for reference. Is that in the neighborhood of what you’re looking for?

 

jaymandude

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Zildjian made a nice run of prototype heavier Renaissance for a Maxwell K day a year or so ago. All up around 2650-2800. Worth calling them about if one happens to come back to them. Mine is a early prototype at just over 2600. Probably something close to what you want. I think it's too thin for rock, but that's my taste ( and opinion)
 

jb78

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Thanks to everyone who has suggested the Constantinople Medium ride. In the clips I have listened to, it sounds a bit stiff and not very musical. (Maybe a bit clangy? That's too harsh a description though.) What has been your experience with these in actual gigging situations?
I have a 22" Constantinople Medium. I find it to be very musical and not clangy. It's got a pleasing note, particularly when played with barrel tip sticks and for me, it mostly solved the common problem of finding a Goldilocks cymbal between something with a little ping and cut and a much more complex ride. However, I agree with what someone else about it having more of a "roar" as it builds up as opposed to a "wash." That's not for everyone but in the right setting, I like it. I find the roar to be a musical one!

I will say also that I'll only bring it out in certain situations and could find myself selling it eventually if it's not used often enough. When I bought it, I'd hoped it would be my primary ride and it's not. Lately I've been enjoying something a little cleaner sounding and have been playing a 1980 (I think) 20" Paiste 2002 mostly.
 

cjs2002

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i would personally not recommend the K Custom Darks in this case. They are gorgeous cymbals but they lack the woody stick definition, in my opinion and on the ones I've played. Whoever suggested vintage, heavier Zildjians is spot on
 

Sammybear

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As far as 22 Constantinoples are concerned, you definitely want to consider the 22 K Con Med, especially over the 22 K Con MTL (based upon your requirements). The K Con Med is a beautiful instrument (I've had several weights and liked the 2800g range) that you can coax gorgeous sounds out of. I've had both the Med and MTL and while each was beautiful, the 22 MTL will wash out, but still sounds great with the "right one."

I love Constantinoples and have brought in many to try. They are all different, so it takes some patience if you are ordering in. That being said, there's something about a 20" K Ride that delivers at a better price break. When I first got into Constantinoples, I immediately found myself missing that defined stick sound the 20" K delivered, especially over the Constantinoples.

From what I can tell online, the Custom Special Dry appeared to be getting a lot of love, but I believe Zildjian started to mess around with the design and got away from what I heard was a pretty popular ride.

Currently, I play a 20" K Constantinople light ride 1886g. Surprisingly, for as light as it is, it has great stick definition and crashes great. It's the best of all worlds, has a small carbon footprint, easy to schlepp around, can be the "one cymbal only at a gig cymbal," etc. That cymbal is not going anywhere. I preferred that over the Philly Jo Jones, that had too low of a register for my tastes, but was still a very nice cymbal. The 20" K Custom Dark is pretty nice too, as is the 20" Kerope Medium. Good luck!
 

Seb77

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the Philly Jo Jones... had too low of a register for my tastes, but was still a very nice cymbal.
That's true. While not going down as far as some MTLow might, the presence peak so to speak of the PJJ ride is very low. I really sits under the sound of horns. In the context of rock/pop, vocals, guitars, keys have a different kind opf presence. Here I prefer a higher-pitched wash that adds some brightness. With a brass section, this brightness to my ear is what the horns supply, and a higher wash might be competing with them, so I'd pick a lower sound. The PJJ should be perfect for big band I feel - alas, neither band nor gigs in sight for me at the moment.
 

tgregorek

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Long time Istanbul Agop owner here, so pardon my ignorance. I am considering venturing into Zildjian cymbals again after being away from them for the past 20 years or so.

Let me start by saying, I play pop/rock, singer-songwriter, and some soul stuff. (Gigging -well I used to gig- and recording.) I'm looking for a 22" ride that has a woody stick that is pronounced. I'd like a low pitched wash that doesn't overwhelm the stick sound. I would definitely prefer something with character and grittiness that is crashable.

I have an Istanbul Agop 30th Anniversary ride that is wonderful, but it doesn't have enough stick sound. The wash is all that seems to be heard from 10 feet away, regardless of what stick I use or where I play on the ride. Near field, the thing sounds fantastic though. I love some of the Constantinople rides that Zildjian makes, but I'm worried that they don't have enough stick sound. I definitely DON'T want a pingy ride or a rock ride.

I have set of 15" Zildjian hats from the early 60s that are phenomenal. They are smoky sounding but with enough definition to work in live situations. I'd love to find something that works with the hats.

Any ideas?
Find a 1960’s Zildjian 22” around 2200-2400 grams. It will have stick definition and a gentle wash. Depending on the size of the bell it could have a great bell. My 22 has the best bell of all my cymbals.
 

Topsy Turvy

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I'm looking closely (and listening to a ton of videos/soundfiles) at the Zildjian K Custom Dark ride, the K Constantinople Medium, and vintage 60s A ride.

These actually all come close, yet sound quite different.
 


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