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1952 Avedis Zildjian article with pictures (New York Daily News)
- Thread starter toddlittle827
- Start date
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30" !! Sounds like a great$$ time in AZ History
toddlittle827
Very well Known Member
the 30" A Zildjian was introduced in 1949
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Tama CW
DFO Star
Now I would have thought the "other" Zildjians back in Turkey were the ones supplying most of the orchestral cymbals to symphonies, etc.
Yeah I had a nice 26 Trans Stamp from that era , was a Beauty should’ve hung onto it. Dammit.
One would think with all those 14 & 15 manhole covers kicking around out there
ChicagoDave
Well-Known Member
I wonder if the one I bought used to be yours.
Could be!
Cant imagine there's many 26 trans floating around. If I remember correctly it was around 3600g of dark chocolate patina.
zenstat
Very well Known Member
There are some. These span 2014 to 2021. Regular means cymbal shaped with a bell. Used when there aren't any other distinguishing model features in the shape. There are a one each 28" gong and swish.
Wow more than I thought. Nice Stats Zen !
zenstat
Very well Known Member
I don't think I've caught up with all of the 26" Trans Stamp cymbals yet. Since I got sick I've slowed way down and two years ago I started stashing info here and there in auxiliary files on my disk. I still haven't gone thorough all of them so I'm missing some. And since this thread started out with a mention of 30", that's an interesting situation. We now have 3 independent pieces of information which suggest that 1949 was the year when 30" cymbals came out. I have records of 9 x 30" cymbals.
Some of those are only fleeting mentions in something like YouTube comments so I can't vet them. One is said to be a China, the rest are regular shape. Of the ones which have a stamp I can check, we've got some 1970s Thin Stamp, a Made in Canada (also 70s), a 60s tall (also now known to be in factory use until the mid 1970s), one A Zildjian & Cie which is also 70s. So the quick question is: why? I am aware of a few theories out there that these cymbals were all made in the early 1950s and sat around in the vaults until much later because they didn't sell well. I haven't been able test that proposition yet with the photos I've got. Did large diameters make a comeback in the 1970s?
ChicagoDave
Well-Known Member
3630 grams according to my $20 Target scale. Found it on Reverb maybe a year ago. I figured I'd never see another again at the listed price. Couldn't pass up one of my unicorns, and I haven't lost sleep over it yet.
Attachments
zenstat
Very well Known Member
Very occasionally we find cymbals which have a price written on the underside from years ago. I duly check them out against my reasonably good coverage of price lists over the decades. Can you read it well enough to let me know what it says? The DFO image degrading software has done its work and I can't really make it out. $99.22 perhaps?
Wow sure looks like it Weight is right there also. You didn't get it from me though, sold it a good ten yrs ago when I was sent to cymbal rehab for a cleanse! Nice pie
In my experience, this has been more or less true. I feel that A. Zildjian, in the last 15-20 years has come very close to the Turkish K. sound (from an Orchestral point of view). Orchestral percussion sections are slow to change ranks and when you have a sound concept that you hear in the ensemble everyday for years, it takes decades for that concept to morph to something else.
We have a pair of 26" Sabians that we bought for Mahler Symphony type applications, and I can tell you that 3-4 crashes in succession are about all I have strength and control for. Gripping and holding them out leaves very little room to maneuver, not to mention the strain on finger/wrist/shoulder joints, and I am six feet tall.
Another issue with the 1949 30" cymbals from a dance band perspective would be how would they be mounted?
A 30" ride mounted on a BD cymbal arm would not allow room for a tom, nor could the arm support that much weight plus the accompanying vibration, therefore a floor stand would be required. Has anybody seen photos of such a thing?
I seem to remember a Stan Kenton band fixation with large rides in the 60-70's. I remember that drummer Gary Hobbs had a (26"?) ride, but I can't remember how he had it mounted.
Tama CW
DFO Star
I think the Stan Kenton Band used a 26" for many years. Peter Erskine also got to play that huge ride.
Billy Cobham was said to have had a 26" ride and swish in one of his kits.
Mounting it should not be a problem though it could make getting to your other right side cymbals a bit more difficult if they don't overlap the 26" to some extent.
Billy Cobham was said to have had a 26" ride and swish in one of his kits.
Mounting it should not be a problem though it could make getting to your other right side cymbals a bit more difficult if they don't overlap the 26" to some extent.
JDA
DFO Star
Mousie Alexander
26
26
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JDA
DFO Star
ChicagoDave
Well-Known Member
From another angle it looks like 92.00. It's easier to see in person.
This is the only old A price list that I have. 26" is listed as 82.50. I don't know the year it was published.
zenstat
Very well Known Member
That price list is from Slingerland 1950. In Slingerland 1955 the 26" price is up to $84. This cross checks with Leedy $84 in 1954 which is cat no 58. There is a problem with some people using catalog number to stand in for year and I haven't investigated that fully yet. There is a 4 year offset. WFL 1948, 1951, 1953, 1957 catalog only offers up to 22" and I haven't captured all the other diameter data so I can plot them all together to analyze the changes. Note that the wartime catalogs tend to have 16" as the largest diameter Avedis Zildjian cymbal available. We can't tell what part of the limit on diameter is the wartime effect and what part is particular drum companies deciding to just put the the commonly purchased diameters in their catalog and what part is other unknown factors. I started a project to review all the catalogs to see who had what brands and second lines on offer in different years. This is a slightly out of date summary of that review which I produced. It is in both an old Excel format and PDF if the obsolete Excel format doesn't work for you.
download xls format
download pdf format
Adding prices for a range of diameters was the next step. I started on 22" but had to task switch back to other work. Yet another interesting project waiting to be completed. Note that post internet prices are MAP, and older catalog prices often say "Federal Excise Tax Included" so we aren't going to be comparing like with like.
toddlittle827
Very well Known Member
here is an interesting price sheet (from Frank Wolf Drummers Supplies in NYC) which i am guessing is from the early to mid 1960s. Shows the Avedis Zildjian list price and a glimpse of the street price one could actually get the cymbals in the shop for.
