Bass player asks for a raise--no go

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rondrums51

rondrums51

rondrums51
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Our bassist, one of the finest upright bass players in the state, has been on our jazz gig at a high-end beach hotel for five years steady, and he's worked there on and off for nearly 20 years. In all that time, he has never gotten a raise. Last week, he asked for a $50 a night raise. We work Fridays and Saturdays, and a few extra nights here and there.

This hotel gets $800 a night for a room. Dinner for two is easily $200, and they're packed year 'round. The cheap bastards offered him another $25 a night. He turned it down, and he's leaving us. He will be impossible to replace.

As professional musicians, none of us are greedy, and we don't expect inordinate pay. With the cost of living, we ought to be getting $300 a night, but of course, none of us get that, and if we're lucky enough to have a steady gig, we settle for the going nightly rate--$100 or $125 on the average. One nighters usually pay better, but on a steady year 'round gig, we make concessions.

Still, it reminds me what a lousy business this is. I would love to get out, but I need the frigging money.
 
That sucks. Cheap bastards is right. But on the other hand, he was asking for a 40-50 percent raise. Not realistic in most instances.

He may have been better off trying to bump it up in increments, but good for him for not settling.
 
There's a lot of truth in the riddle, How do you become a millionaire jazz musician? Answer: Start with two million.

There are not many venues for jazz in many cities, and frankly little interest in the genre among the general public. There are a lot of reasons for this that don't need to be rehashed here, but the bottom line is that quality is frequently undervalued. Also, most of us will happily work for a pittance, just to have a chance to play jazz.

Sorry you're losing your bassist. It really sucks having to replace a talented and knowledgeable player. My big band leader commented only half joking tonight that if we lost our guitarist he'd fold the band he's led for 11 years. On the other hand, a new player in a group can also be good for a band. You may find some new things to say, or new ways to say the old things.
 
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It's pathetic alright. I'm sorry you are losing a good player. Here in Australia there's a big fight happening on proposed legislation to limit the amount of money you can spend on a poker machines (slots) All these huge clubs raking in thousands and thousands of dollars per hour from all these poor people (these clubs are passed off as social clubs, in quite modest income areas) The clubs are claiming how this will mean job losses - they're squealing like pigs - and meanwhile they have axed all the bands years ago. Now it's duos and crappy talent quests. They complain about adding guitar to a trio when they make $250 in about 10 seconds. The rates here haven't gone up in years. But even a crap gig pays $220.

I think it's the bandleader's job to angle for small raises every year. But if that job is not filled; then you have to keep raising a little every year. I do this with my IT business (well, it's just me really) by simply adding the CPI (consumer price index) rise every year as a minimum. It's only 2-3% but I just do it. Believe me, I know it's hard to try and do this as a musician but that's where you need a leader (who himself gets a bit more per gig) to shmooze and get the money up a little whenever possible. My 2 centavos. Hope you find a good bassplayer.
 
I learned many, many years, decades ago that if I wanted to make a living playing music, I'd have to make many concessions. When I was a young man, I refused to compromise, and toured with my idols and mentors for just enough money to survive and that was enough for me. But if your motivation goes beyond artistic and self fulfillment and you want to live comfortably and get rich, choose another profession. I supplemented my income at times with teaching and recording and I was a happy man for a long time just getting by financially, playing and giving pleasure to people. Until I became ill. Now I wonder if it was really worth it...But it's too late for that crap and counterproductive to live with regrets. I consider myself lucky to have done what I truly loved, was born to do and be good enough at it to be able to give people pleasure We all make our choices in life and have to live with them. I've come to terms with that.
 
Sounds like the bass player was a ME Me I kinda guy. Should have been going for a straight across the board raise for the group, not just his greedy self. You will find a replacement Ron!! Do keep us posted.
 
Sorry to hear about this Ron, but as someone else pointed out a 30-50% raise right outta' the blue is kinda' pushin' it. Not sayin' he's wrong, especially after 20 years there, but with the instability the country currently faces and the lousy economy you're lucky to have a good paying gig.

Back in the '70s a good bar band in my area, no matter what style of music, got about $200-$250 a night, except the Jazz guys always got a little more. And it got up to $350-$500 a night in the '90s. Now the goin' rate IF you can even get a gig is $125-$250 a night. The last time MY band worked was October 2010. I've done NOTHING in the last YEAR except a few hired-gun gigs. The last one was 2 weeks ago--an acoustic 4-piece at a Cigar Shop that does it once a month. The Guitarist called me today to see if I'd do the next gig too, apparantly they like the percussion and harmony vocals. My pay for the last time was $25 cash, about $15-$20 worth of cigars and dinner--sandwiches and a GOOD Mexican buffet. And I can hardly wait for the next gig! At least I'm working. The only other thing comin' up is a couple retirement home acoustic duo Christmas carol gigs ( acoustic guitar and vocals ) with a Bassist friend of mine for $50-$65 per man. I'm not tryin' to complain here, just sayin' that if you're gettin' payed to play you're doin' better than some of us.

I do sympathize with your predicament. I was in a very popular band from '88 to '91. We hired a phenominal Piano/Sax/Guitar player who really put us on top. He asked for a raise his 2nd year. When the Vocalist/Band Leader refused, the rest of us pitched in out of our pay because we thought he was that valuable. Of course it didn't last long--a lot of hard feelings developed--but maybe that might work for your band.

Eddie
 
Maybe you should ask him to reconsider the $25 a night raise. Point out that playing a steady gig in a quality hotel is a lot better then playing most other gigs. Also, I'm sure his $100-$125 a night is way more then the desk clerks, security, housekeeping, and kitchen staff are making in one night. Especially since you're not playing for eight hours. You're probably the highest paid employees in the hotel.
 
Have you considered the fact that they offered $25 possibly knowing the rest of the band would be placing their palms out also ? :idea1:
Talented upright bass players are kind of a prized commadity in certain areas of the country. I wish you luck in a satisfactory replacement.
I was just talking with a booking agent about the state of gigs right now, with a lot of bands taking less money than they did 5 years ago. He commented that there are a lot of name guys that refuse to play for less money, that are sitting home rather than giving club owners the "future" leverage to negotiate salary !
I personally would try to talk your friend into accepting the $25 raise. :love6:
 
drummerbill said:
Have you considered the fact that they offered $25 possibly knowing the rest of the band would be placing their palms out also ? :idea1:
Talented upright bass players are kind of a prized commadity in certain areas of the country. I wish you luck in a satisfactory replacement.
I was just talking with a booking agent about the state of gigs right now, with a lot of bands taking less money than they did 5 years ago. He commented that there are a lot of name guys that refuse to play for less money, that are sitting home rather than giving club owners the "future" leverage to negotiate salary !
I personally would try to talk your friend into accepting the $25 raise. :love6:
Click to expand...
I was thinking along the same lines. I bet finding a replacement will take a year or more. You'll probably end up with some variety of electric bass player.....a loss all around. Talk to your guy?
 
drummerbill said:
Have you considered the fact that they offered $25 possibly knowing the rest of the band would be placing their palms out also ?
Click to expand...

Actually, there are more than a dozen musicians on staff, and they all make different money. Me and the pianist are OK with our money. Our bassist was on the gig long before us, before the oil spill and the recession, and he was making less bread per night but working six-seven nights. After the recession two summers ago, he got cut back to two nights, at the nightly same pay. And business is booming this year. So what he is asking is not unreasonable.

Everybody, thanks for the replies. We're all in a really dumb business!! I guess the music, hopefully, makes things worthwhile.
 
Greatful venue owners are difficult to come by. Sharing the wealth is not common in our country! I recall an MD artice on negotiating food into payments...do you each get a good nightly meal with the deal? It does seem odd to me that your bass player asked for himself an not for the band...my band always gets paid as a group and not individually. We all could use ample reimbursement for out time and investments, but when money becomes an issue to do it or not one should ponder if you really want to do it at all. I (we) play for free as much as we do and get paid..community benefits and fudraisers pay me in satisfaction that I donate to worthy causes, and some have scored paying gigs. Good bass players are hard to find but not impossible, hope you score a good replacement soon!
 
I sympathize...but I'm pretty happy to take what I can get anymore. In this area, money has all but disappeared. $50 to $100 (on the high side) is the going rate per night per player here. By comparison, I was making $150-$200 a weeknight and $500-$600 a weekend in the late 90's until 2002...then it started dropping off pretty drastically. 9/11 had a huge impact here, believe it or not. Country goes in a police state, people are afraid to go out, bars have less patrons, bars pay bands less. It was swift, and obvious to all of us. The failing economy has iced the turd cake. ;)
I've luckily (?? :blackeye: ) maintained a full-time day job as well as playing since '04. Without it, I wouldn't have survived. On the upside, it's allowed me to only take the gigs I truly enjoy-including my original band, which makes squat. Original music has zero value here, unfortunately. I have to travel with that band to even get a crowd response...let alone make a buck. We lose money playing in town.
Anyway-while your bass player is fully justified in believing he deserves money-the "bird in hand" theory may apply here. $25 more a night beats the tar out of nothing, especially on a steady gig playing with people you enjoy playing with. My .02. Good luck to you all. :occasion5:
 
We don't make much money, but we do get to make music! After almost 50 years as a drummer in the trenches, I have no regrets.
 
Unfortunately the music business is not a business in the strictest sense and never will be...at least not for the ones making it. I think this guy should have accepted the smaller percentage because there aren't too many people getting raises these days.

Regardless, it's still a grossly underpaid occupation. The guy with the missing teeth, waving on traffic while they lay sewer pipes is making considerably more than this. Life just ain't fair sometimes and I don't believe it has ever been fair for those in the arts.

Do you think maybe one of those overpaid ball players might be willing to kick in a bit? Me neither. Why not let a younger guy have a crack at it Ron?
 
SteveB said:
Unfortunately the music business is not a business in the strictest sense and never will be...at least not for the ones making it. I think this guy should have accepted the smaller percentage because there aren't too many people getting raises these days.

Regardless, it's still a grossly underpaid occupation. The guy with the missing teeth, waving on traffic while they lay sewer pipes is making considerably more than this. Life just ain't fair sometimes and I don't believe it has ever been fair for those in the arts.

Do you think maybe one of those overpaid ball players might be willing to kick in a bit? Me neither. Why not let a younger guy have a crack at it Ron?
Click to expand...

Right on, Steve. The music "business" is no business at all.

We did cop a bass player who is considerably younger. He's a good player and he knows a good amount of the jazz repertoire, but he doesn't know the eight million tunes our pianist knows. But he learns tunes quickly and he'll work out just fine.
 
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