Drummers who play with their toms flat?

  • Thread starter Slingerland79
  • Start date
    • This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links like Ebay, Amazon, and others.
My two main kits.

Ludwig 1.JPG


Slingerland 1.JPG
 
Arlo.Damon said:
Just my opinion, but look at Ginger Baker. I think it's an image thing. Not very practical.
Click to expand...

Ginger actually explains his reasoning in an interview. He says that angling the toms makes them too easy to play and as a result drummers overplay them. He set his up flat so he has to go up and over and as a result he played them with more intention.
 
Mcjnic said:
I've wondered the same thing.
I tried to set up a simple four piece kit that way.
Torqued the heck out of my wrist on the first fill.
Stopped then and there and angled that tom.
I honestly don't understand the positioning.
Click to expand...
I've got a 4-piece and while not perfectly flat, pretty darn close. Rims are all at same level, so there isn't any UP involved for me. Ride cymbal is just a tick shy of being flat as well. Crashes nearly so; that makes it easier to hit up from below. Rim shots are much easier to do on toms if they are more flat.
 
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links like Ebay, Amazon, and others.
Slingerland79 said:
Anyone care to explain the reasoning behind why some drummers play with their rack toms, (or tom) positioned perfectly flat)? Now you have to go up and over in order to hit it, making fast fills almost impossible, and you end up hitting the rim instead. Other than because "it looks cool", I never got it. Same with drummers who sit low so that their knees are higher than their hip, ala Tommy Lee, ouch, death to knees I would think.
Click to expand...
Know nothing about "looking cool." No need to go up because both toms and snare are at same heights. There is more economy of motion; it is easier to hit rim shots on toms. And if the cymbals are also closer to flat, it is easier to strike them from beneath.
 
Cann_Man28 said:
Ginger actually explains his reasoning in an interview. He says that angling the toms makes them too easy to play and as a result drummers overplay them. He set his up flat so he has to go up and over and as a result he played them with more intention.
Click to expand...

Yeah I like this concept.
 
When I think of flat, high toms, I think of Eric Singer and Pat Torpey (totally forgot about Mike Bordin!). Pat's toms weren't really big and he had his 13" nestled between his kicks and the 10" offset to the left so they sat a little lower. Eric on the other hand has them right up front:
Screen Shot 2022-03-23 at 8.14.56 AM.png


That's his setup with KISS. I think he used a size larger back in the 80's with Badlands (AND...they're on top of 24" kicks). And look at the height of those two front crashes! Didn't seem to hamper him though and made for some impressive showmanship:

 
Last edited:
I'm a 100% matched-grip player and 6'4" tall. Due to historic hardware limitations of kits that fit into small jazzy spaces, I spent nearly 40 years sitting too low and too close to the bass drum, which caused all sorts of odd ergonomic challenges. With the help of a different kind of kit, I've spent the last four years raising my drums up to about 30" (the lowest point of the batter rim) off the ground, moving back from the pedals a bit, and flattening out my kit. I'm not ready to go level yet, I'm actually not convinced that would be healthy over the long term, but as I'm getting used to this new setup, I'm really enjoying the feel of things. And for the detail-oriented (I know your in here), the small tom's rim is a half-inch below the height of the snare's, so I can cross-stick any place I like on the snare.

flat-toms.png
 
might make sense to get a more direct or powerful hit on the toms, especially if you are tall or sit up high. Mine are angled a bit but no more than necessary--don't think I'm tall enough or sit high enough to have them flat. have to admit it does look cool tho when drummers have flat toms xD
 
In '80 I ordered a 22" bass and 6 power toms, top head only (now I know they're "concert toms"). I mounted 12"x10" and 13"x11" on the bass. They had to be tilted, or I literally couldn't reach them. I tilted the other toms similarly, and mounted all cymbals except ride and HH "overhead" ('cus that's what we did). Self taught since '69, I played entirely with my wrists, matched grip, and my L could never really keep up with my R ("if I only had 2 R hands"). I saw Billy Cobham several times, and I wanted to play ride with my L, snare and fills with my R. It wasn't even barely there, forget it. I went to graduate school in '05, worked as a physical therapist till '20. I put my set on shelves in the garage, so I could meet the demands of my job. In PT, I learned a lot about muscles, joints, and "handedness". To help with a medical issue, I retired and began 24/7/365 at home. TV was OK for a week, then I needed something more. Got out the sticks. On the web, I relearned stick technique. I play with my middle and ring fingers. my wrists don't flex, and my thumbs barely move. At first, I couldn't reliably stabilize with my L thumb, and my L middle and ring could barely complete the necessary movement. I literally stick handled 100s of hours on my family room floor, at least 80% focused on only L hand development. I can play L hand rides at least 90% of R. Drug the set out of the garage (much rust). Bought a 24" bass. I had practiced lateral movement of hands on my floor ("drum to drum" movement), and I liked it. I thought "out of the box". I prefer to play down. Put my snare and stool at the high end of comfort zone. I mounted all 6 flat, on the same level, on racks, heads roughly 1" higher than flat snare. I spent time reaching/striking in the air, eyes closed, to see where my hands WANTED to go, and tried to position accordingly. Presently, I have R and L rides, 3 crash and 2 stacks, all flat, a few inches above heads, nothing higher than my elbow, standing. I played this for a while, and absolutely loved it. There was no way I could put a 20" bass in traditional position, let alone 24". I'm concerned that the drum police will lock me up and never let me play again, 'cus....I bought a L hand dbl bass pedal, and put the bass in the L foot position. I play primarily with R foot, but I'm starting to do some 2 foot playing. I know, somehow it seems wrong. I don't care. I can play this arrangement so much better than before. I'm sitting on top, instead of reaching up and out. I can see around me so much better. For the heck of it, I tried to play a bit "old style", with my wrists. It wasn't comfortable at all, and I hit the rims a lot. Maybe it's a difference in hand/wrist technique issue?
 
I think Ginger Baker started it. Ginger was very tall and lanky with very long arms and he held his sticks at the very end, giving himself a very long reach. (He was also an expert polo player and competitive bicyclist with his long arms and legs). Ginger typically wasn't crazy fast like Mitch Mitchell or Keith Moon, his style was more rythmic, musical and methodical with his Afrcican beats and so he didn't need the speed. He created the illusion of speed with his beats.
 
maybe some tom mounts- back in the day- were strong only - or strongest- reliable to stay put- when set level.
sometimes it's the simplest reasons

 
Last edited:
latzanimal said:
There is also a bit of science behind flat drums. There are some who believe that any motion past parallel to the floor is wasted energy. NP raised his snare after taking lessons with Gruber, as did Weckl.

Try this: drop your stick on an angled drum and watch where the stick bounces. When you hit the drum at that angle, ALL of the rebound goes in that direction which is most likely back into your hand. On a flat drum, the rebound is straight back up in the air, reducing the rebounding impact on your hands/wrist.
Click to expand...
Yep. Explained here by the man himself back from post 22 of this thread

Drummers who play with their toms flat?

I like mine like this. Only slightly higher than the snare and almost completely flat. Easier to play for me.
www.drumforum.org www.drumforum.org
 
latzanimal said:
Everyone's setup doesn't need to make sense to anyone but the drummer themself.

I am also willing to bet that there are very, very few of us who set our drums up the same.
Click to expand...
So true and so unique to the drums alone as an instrument. Guitars and keyboards are a standard configuration, but drums are up to the player and no 2 are quite alike.
 
Slingerland79 said:
Anyone care to explain the reasoning behind why some drummers play with their rack toms, (or tom) positioned perfectly flat)? Now you have to go up and over in order to hit it, making fast fills almost impossible, and you end up hitting the rim instead. Other than because "it looks cool", I never got it. Same with drummers who sit low so that their knees are higher than their hip, ala Tommy Lee, ouch, death to knees I would think.
Click to expand...
I play with my almost flat, it gives me more options for "feel" on the drums. Rim shots are almost impossible with severely angled toms.
 
Mcjnic said:
I've wondered the same thing.
I tried to set up a simple four piece kit that way.
Torqued the heck out of my wrist on the first fill.
Stopped then and there and angled that tom.
I honestly don't understand the positioning.
Click to expand...
It’s worse than just an ergonomic problem. The sound waves bounce off the floor and there are phase issues when they fire back up into the resident head.
 
Frank Godiva said:
So true and so unique to the drums alone as an instrument. Guitars and keyboards are a standard configuration, but drums are up to the player and no 2 are quite alike.
Click to expand...
To a degree. My guitars I like low action. And then I grab a buddies and he likes higher action so to a degree. Drums tho are a different animal. I’ve never jumped on someone’s kit and have it even come close to my setup.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top