Help Identify this old cymbal (Please)

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K.O.

K.O.

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I bought some old drum stuff at an auction today (unfortunately not nearly as cheaply as I had hoped) and included in the lot was this very old cymbal. I was hoping it was an old K (and am still not 100% sure it isn't) but I can't find a stamp of any kind on the upper surface. It does have three signatures under the bell though. It appears to be a cast (B20) cymbal that was hammered and lathed and is approx 15" in diameter. It's definitely old, probably from the mid to late 1920's at the newest. It came with a CG Conn or Leedy snare drum, another cymbal (marked Wurlitzer) and there was a Lyon & Healy single tension bass drum as part of the set (although I didn't get that).

Anyway if anyone can help identify this based on the attached photos that would be cool. Just curious what I've got here.

One of the words may be "Constantinople" and another looks like it could possibly say "Zildjian" or "Zilcan" but perhaps that's just wishful thinking on my part.
 
ko

could that frst word in the second pic be zenjian? that would make sense from the time frame. thats a great looking cymbal. even just the signatures are elegant.

mike
 
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Constantinople certainly is one of the words which is a good start :icon_smile: . Never seen anything like it before though. Good luck figuring out the rest of it.
 
mlayton said:
ko

could that frst word in the second pic be zenjian? that would make sense from the time frame. thats a great looking cymbal. even just the signatures are elegant.

mike
Click to expand...

Maybe Mike...just can't really read this style of writing so well and hoping perhaps someone has a "known" cymbal with identical writing under the bell. Not sure of the significance (if any) of the "L5 Zn" (or is it "LS In") on the underside. The top was caked with crud so I hoped I'd find a stamp after cleaning but no such luck.

These were at an auction in a little town of less than 300 people about 30 miles from my home. I hoped to get a steal but the drums were one of the pricier things to sell there...thanks to one woman who appeared to be a Chicago area antiques dealer swooping downstate after some bargains.

According to a family member I spoke with his grandfather played drums in bands in Chicago with Bix Biederbeck (of course, around these parts everybody's grandpa supposedly played with Bix). That story plus the other stuff included with the lot definitely puts this in the 20's era.
 
How does it sound? Like a quality cymbal or a clunker? It certainly looks "K-ish" in the first pic. And I agree that one of the words certainly looks like Constantinople.
 
j.edgarwarthog said:
How does it sound? Like a quality cymbal or a clunker? It certainly looks "K-ish" in the first pic. And I agree that one of the words certainly looks like Constantinople.
Click to expand...

It is musical, it rings and carries through like a quality cymbal rather than a typical "clunker". It's a bit on the heavy side but you can crash it and play time on it. Has a definite wash when playing time. Doesn't really sound a whole lot different than one of my Turkish K 15" hi-hats when crashed on. This would probably work fine as a hi-hat bottom. It would probably open up yet a bit more if I cleaned all the crud off the bottom, but I don't want to risk damaging the sigs. Probably should have left the "patina" (crud) on the top alone as well but hoped to find a stamp on it.
 
KO,

If this were mine I'd place it on display on one of those diner plate display racks. This is too cool of a historical antique to chance any damage or worse.

Nice find in any event.
 
Nice find. I would think that the top writing definitely is "15 in" as in 15 inches and while Constantinople is for sure one word it is not spelt as one would in English so all the writing might be in and from either Europe or be romanised Turkish ? Interesting and very worth preserving as is.
 
Look very closely with a magnifying glass and see if you can find a stamp,
the earliest ones had a small one, I'll post apic later.

I don't recognise the signature or writing style.
Picture below is the sig from an early 1900's Constantinople

sig2.jpg

Hi jacked for comparison
(broken image removed)
 
Spongebob said:
KO,

If this were mine I'd place it on display on one of those diner plate display racks. This is too cool of a historical antique to chance any damage or worse.

Nice find in any event.
Click to expand...

I doubt I'd ever play it...I have about 60 other cymbals floating around my house so there's no reason to risk damaging this old one. It's sound doesn't fit with what I want in a "gig-worthy" cymbal anyhow. Very cool just to have in my small vintage cymbal collection (after all it backed Bix Beiderbeck), but it would be even cooler to know what it is.
 
Is it B20? Looks like nickel silver alloy in the pictures. What size was the Wurlitzer cymbal? It probably is 20s or late teens at the earliest. The grommet makes me think it was a had cymbal at one time. It may be a costantinople cymbal from the 20s. Or it could be all writing from somewhere else, maybe Italy.
 
Pounder said:
Is it B20? Looks like nickel silver alloy in the pictures. What size was the Wurlitzer cymbal? It probably is 20s or late teens at the earliest. The grommet makes me think it was a had cymbal at one time. It may be a costantinople cymbal from the 20s. Or it could be all writing from somewhere else, maybe Italy.
Click to expand...

It looks like B20 to my eye and had green spots on it before I cleaned it. I suppose it could possibly be some other alloy. I put together a brief video on it so forum mates could hear it (albeit through a crappy camera mic).


The Wurlitzer cymbal is 13" in diameter and reads (as best as I can make out) "R Wurlitzer & Bros." with two other short lines below that I can't decipher.
 
JohnG said:
K.O. no idea but I love that music......Peter Gunn and 007 like.............
Click to expand...

"Kitten with a Whip" opening title. They used library music for the film but one of the listed composers is Mancini.
 
Cool cymbal! I'm pretty sure that's an Italian cymbal, one of the "K clones" that led K Zildjian to start their campaign against copies of the "one and only authentic" etc. Bill H refers to them as "ersatz K's". Could be wrong, but I think that was the diagnosis the last time I saw that writing under the bell.

Thanks,
Bill
 
mlvbs said:
Cool cymbal! I'm pretty sure that's an Italian cymbal, one of the "K clones" that led K Zildjian to start their campaign against copies of the "one and only authentic" etc. Bill H refers to them as "ersatz K's". Could be wrong, but I think that was the diagnosis the last time I saw that writing under the bell.

Thanks,
Bill
Click to expand...

That's what I thought was a possibilty after not finding a stamp after I cleaned the top (it was so dirty the crud could have obscured a stamp). The "Constantinople" writing gave me some reason to be optimistic but that could as easily be intended as a brand name rather than an indication of the location of manufacter.

Still a neat old cymbal....nothing wrong with Italian cymbals...but probably not worth a fraction of what an equivalent K would be.
 
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