Helping our base players sound

[Joe61]

Our bass player has been unhappy with the sound from his rig. I agree with him that it could be better. He complains the sound is muddy. He also can't describe the sound he wants. Its frustrating. To make matters worse he is impatient and expects instant gratification, has no patients to tweak a DI set up or a mic setup. He is also the nicest guy you will ever know.

What types of configurations do bass players you know use for live gigs?
Miced?
DI
Both?

Here is a list of gear he uses, all good stuff I think.
Fender American Elite Jazz Bass
Ampeg PF-800 Head
Ampeg PF-210HE
EV Cobalt Co4 mic
Our PA consist of two EON618 subs and two EON615 PA
Fed from an Xair18

I'm sure their are many different setups out there, I would just like to know what some of you have in the bands you play in.

Thanks
Joe

 

[MasterBlaster]

Bass

 

[Stickclick]

"Muddy" sound suggests that he is competing with other instruments in the same frequency range.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Two 10"s is small for that head. 4 to 6 would do a much better job. 10" speakers aren't known for being muddy. If anything, they're bright and clear.

 

[swarfrat]

If he's unsure of how to get there and impatient, I would absolutely heck no do not mic an amp. Micing bass amps live is for hard headed AR types (not the record deal guys) who have a very clear idea and are absolutely dead set on doing it that way, and have equipment and venues to pull it off.

Start with pulling the bass knob out of the bass guitar. So many seem to people think "it's a bass, if I want more, I need to turn the knob that says bass", when more volume with a bass eq cut might get you want you seek. But I have a feeling the real answer here lies in muting techniques at the fingers.

 

[Nacci]

I have nothing constructive to add to this thread but it made me recall all the time I have sat and listened to my Bass Player around with knobs and setting and pedals or helped carry down a new cabinets or some new micro bass that was going to be the sound.

 

[polycrescendo]

These tend to help. The sansamp pedal or rack unit always sounds crisp to me.

https://www.google.com/shopping/pro...MIj-G8iM6p5AIVkYTICh2bEwITEAkYAiABEgLJwvD_BwE

 

[supershifter2]

1970's ampeg svt and a rickenbacker bass

 

[Seb77]

Hard to tell without sound.
I play a little bass myself, and it's really a lot in the hands. Have someone else play the same rig, and the muddiness might be gone?
I use very little eq, only to get an even sound from the amp and room I'm using, in order to be able to dial in the sound by how I play, and with the pickups and tone knob (Squier VM jazz bass).

 

[bongomania]

Two 10"s is small for that [job].

EXACTLY. A 210 cab is fine for practice, or for a coffee shop gig, but any bigger gig is asking too much from a cab that small. In order to compensate for the cab, he’s got to be cranking up the volume and bass on the amp, which will result in muddy sound.

If he gets another 210 and stacks the two cabs, or replaces his cab with something bigger and more efficient, he will be able to move more air with clean sound. I know plenty of guys who bring big cabs even to small gigs, because they know it will give them more dynamic range and cleaner tone even when the amp’s volume is turned low.

 

[thejohnlec]

I play bass live fairly often, and my rig consists of a SansAmp bass driver with a little TC Electronics compression in front of it. I don't use (or own) an amp, but rather bring my in ear rig with me. If I do buy an amp, I will go 10s all day long.

Your bass player's gear is solid. There is good info above, particularly with eq. Generally, the bass player is really the only one taking that frequency space through the regular course of a song. Any mud can be cleaned up by rolling off the low end, particularly anything below 100hz. If he's going to add more speakers, do not mix sizes. If he has 10s, he needs to add more 10s.

 

[charlesm]

I also play some bass and had a steady bass gig for about 5 years at one point. P-bass into small combos with DI if necessary.

If my sound seemed muddy in a given room, my solution was subtractive: cut the bass eq and boost volume a bit if needed to make up gain.

That usually gave me a much clearer tone.

Subtractive eq is the answer to so many tone issues. It takes a while to learn that lesson, though; the instict is usually to add what you think is missing, whereas what you're looking for is often clarity. You have to take away offending frequencies, even when it seems counterintuitive.

 

[TPC]

Agree about lowering the bass EQ. Seems counterintuitive for a bass, but in both live and recording/mixing/mastering, scooping out a bunch of db's around 100-250 hz can really clean up the bass tone and make it pop a lot better in the mix.

 

[Bonzoholic]

Bass

 

[MasterBlaster]

I've seen them 3 times, back in the '70s. The first time was in Fresno, in a large theater opening for Rush. Rush had a hard time following KISS, lol.

 

[dsop]

All the cool kids are using Mark Bass amps now.

Jeff Berlin – Markbass

www.markbass.it

ALAIN CARON – Markbass

www.markbass.it

Marcus Miller – Markbass

www.markbass.it

Richard Bona – Markbass

www.markbass.it

ERNEST TIBBS – Markbass

www.markbass.it

Mark Egan – Markbass

www.markbass.it

Mark King – Markbass

www.markbass.it

TOM KENNEDY – Markbass

www.markbass.it

Linley Marthe – Markbass

www.markbass.it

Chris Minh Doky – Markbass

www.markbass.it

Randy Jackson – Markbass

www.markbass.it

 

[bongomania]

Recommending a different amp brand is bad advice. There’s nothing inherently muddy or poor quality about the amp he already has. And he’d still have the exact same problem he has now, using a Markbass head through his 210, with similar EQ settings.

Plus I think it’s hilarious that that list of players is anyone’s idea of “cool kids”, and also hilarious if you compare it against Ampeg’s artist roster.

 

[swarfrat]

I'm sure they's a bass player somewhere named "Mark Bass" who is really digging his "signature amp"

 

[Tmcfour]

He's pushing 2 10" speakers with an 800 watt head. Have him look for another or additional cabinet. 4x10 at the least. Or maybe to compliment the 10s get a 1x15. You can find great used peavey and ampeg cabs all over the internet and sometimes even mesa boogies. Or if wants to up his game he can get an Orange cab but they are pricey.

He's going to have to dial in his sound no matter what he has or gets. With patience you can get a decent bass sound out of wide range of equipment.

 

[Olderschool]

Two 10"s is small for that head. 4 to 6 would do a much better job. 10" speakers aren't known for being muddy. If anything, they're bright and clear.

THIS. I personally don't like 10" drivers. I use a 15 and a tweeter. Clear as a bell...I could even use it as a guitar rig and it sounds clean as a whistle. But with Bass...it's also about the cab. Anyway....I think he needs to start with a larger driver....