Is a Paiste 3000 really a 2002?

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wayne

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With perhaps something very minor to seperate the two lines?
 
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I don't know (well now, I do) but I like the 2000 (nope, not 2002) ride. How did it differ from all of the above?
 
2000's had a bit less workmanship/perfection than the 3000, or at least that's what I'm thinking...I have a 2000 Power Ride that I bought new back then and still use it today, great cymbal for the bucks.
 
Cauldronics said:
I don't know (well now, I do) but I like the 2000 (nope, not 2002) ride. How did it differ from all of the above?
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Same metal, but I think the later 2000 cymbals were a lower line when the top B8 was a 3000. This was after the 2002 was discontinued. it got so bloody confusing, especially since the Colorsound and Reflectors were 2000 series after the original Colorsound 5 came out. Come to think of it, Paiste has certainly has a LOT of different series numbers and model names as well as sub lines.
 
You had me with 'same metal.' If I can find a 20 or 22 ride in the 2000 line, I'm going deeper into debt.

Why does Paiste often create a new line of cool stuff and then discontinue it within a year or so? It bugs me.
 
Cauldronics said:
You had me with 'same metal.' If I can find a 20 or 22 ride in the 2000 line, I'm going deeper into debt.

Why does Paiste often create a new line of cool stuff and then discontinue it within a year or so? It bugs me.
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I agree- they really annoyed me when they discontinued the Dimensions line of cymbals. These are great cymbals ! The crashes and hihats were superb cymbals. I know they absorbed some of these into the 2002 series (like the Dry ride and thin chinas), but they didn't keep the thin/heavy hihats and the thin and medium thin crashes, nor did they keep the Medium and light rides.

The Innovations was another line they discontinued that had some nice cymbals. I recall seeing Russ Kunkel using an entire set of Innovations and they sounded great.
 
Argueably, the 3000s were a precursor to the Signatures like above - 2002 alloy with Signature workmanship. Paiste was developing the hammering and lathing on B8 3000s which were the flagship of the 80s (after dropping Sound Creation and 602 B20 lines). Then in 1989 Paiste released the Sigs made from a new alloy which looked virtually the same as the 3000s. The 2000s received less workmanship than the 3000s but are fine cymbals nonetheless.

On lines, it's a bit frustrating. I guess when they develop new ideas they encapsulate them in an entire series and see if it has staying power. Some models/concepts fail, others stick and are either continued individually or absorbed into an established line. On the numbered series, Paiste had a confusing lineup for a while. There was 404, 505, 1000, 2000, 3000, 2000 Sound Reflectors, 3000 Sound Reflectors, 1000 RUDE, 2000 Colorsound, and 3000 RUDE (all post 602 and 2002). Marketing the differences among all of these B8 lines was probably a nightmare in the boardroom so they started over when they launched their new alloy.
 
The 3000 Series actually had 2 different lathings: The later was the more brilliant-y Signature-y lathing, the earlier less so.
 
I have two crashes and a set of hats in the 3000 series. They are really nice cymbals. I don't use them as much these days but they have given me fantastic service. I sort of wore out the top hat from touring. Paiste love changing series. Not sure why but it keeps them busy at the factory, I'm sure.
 
As to why Paiste discontinues lines after a few years, it seems to me that perhaps Paiste views the changing of music styles every five or so years as a sufficient reason to change the sound of the cymbals, since cymbals are heard in nearly every style of music there is.

If this is indeed the case, then that not only makes a lot of sense to me, but also points perhaps to a different company philosophy (i.e. the reason why they are in business in the first place) than what seems to be the mainstay of the other brands, which is to continue with core offerings with slight variation.

Moreover, while Paiste has a comfortable share of the European market, their share in the US - the biggest market in the world - is small, somewhere in the neighborhood of 5% - and with competition from Meinl, as well as the number of Chinese and Turkish brands - they can only succeed by "converting" Zildjian and Sabian players. Perhaps the best way to do that is by continually offering something that no one else offers.

Lastly, drummers who play Paiste tend to stick with the brand over a long period of time and will change to other Paiste lines as they are introduced. In this sense Paiste players are perhaps more "engaged" than those who play the other leading brands.
 
bonzoleum said:
The 3000 Series actually had 2 different lathings: The later was the more brilliant-y Signature-y lathing, the earlier less so.
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Uh huh. The early 3000's were just remarkably similar to 2002's that preceded them. Honestly, soundwise, you would be hard put to tell the difference in a blindfold test. I had both on hand at the same time, and I can testify to that.

3000 = very similar sound to the 2002. The finish felt a little different, is all.
 
All I know is I have 14" 3000 hats, which my son currently uses, which are some of the best hard rock hats I've ever heard.
 
I heard they were phasing 2002 line out and came out with 3000 series to replace them, but the 2002 series was held on by popular demand. Alloy is identical, but lathing and hammering on the 3000 series is slightly different. It came out before Signature series so if it is similar, then it's more a case of the signature (or sound formula, perhaps) series being modeled after some of the attributes of the 3000 series not the other way around. Others are going to be more adept at answering the question than I, though.
 
Paiste were "overwhelmed" at the level of objection that drummers voiced at their original intention to phase out the 2oo2 series... when they realised they had to keep them due to the esteem and affection they were held in they for a while marketed them as "the Everclassic 2oo2"
 
the 3000's were initially created by Paiste as a replacement for the 2002 series..but because of the less than warm welcome from Paiste artists using the 2002's ,they were never removed and the 3000's were later discontinued..that's about all the info i have on the 3000 series..they were pro grade cymbals and made from the same 2002 alloy..great sounding cymbals..
 
paiste71 said:
the 3000's were initially created by Paiste as a replacement for the 2002 series..but because of the less than warm welcome from Paiste artists using the 2002's ,they were never removed and the 3000's were later discontinued..that's about all the info i have on the 3000 series..they were pro grade cymbals and made from the same 2002 alloy..great sounding cymbals..
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The 2002s actually did go away for a couple years! Paiste pulled a 'Coke II'!
 
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