Is this ride cymbal in "good" condition? - RELISTED & SOLD.

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Send it back and ignore any further messages from the seller. Have ebay block their messages if need be and then let it go and move on. The stuff about the police is complete nonsense. I wouldn't waste another second worrying about that.

Unfortunately this is what eBay has become.
 
DWSlingerland45 said:
Ad is deceptive in my opinion it is exactly " Not as described" . Cannot say if it was done on purpose by the seller for sure. However the seller is obviously off their rails. If I were in your shoes I would take lots of pictures during the repackaging process and send it back. Then empty your PayPal account or whatever you have linked to eBay for a while. You've done nothing wrong here, and that cymbal should have been marked as edges warped and Fair condition and priced approx half of what you paid. I've bought and sold dozens of EAKs over the years you're spot on about the value. Good Luck.
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Thanks DWS. I do try to state things exactly as I see them....and how the other side should see them too. And I expect the same in return if I were to ship out something that was improperly described. However, I usually write a "book" on anything I'm selling so that there isn't any possible "flaw" a buyer could find that I didn't already identify.
 
csm said:
Send it back and ignore any further messages from the seller. Have ebay block their messages if need be and then let it go and move on. The stuff about the police is complete nonsense. I wouldn't waste another second worrying about that.

Unfortunately this is what eBay has become.
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I'll be at Staples UPS counter in 2 hours dropping this off. Already texted and messaged the seller. It will probably sit there all weekend and unscanned until UPS does their first Monday pickup. So they probably won't
have any info that UPS has the package as Staples just holds it for them. I will provide them a screen shot of my Staples Invoice. And I will talk to the store manager to see if I can use them as a contact number in the event the seller doesn't believe me.....in which case they can Staples directly and talk to someone who will verify they have the package. Then it will be out of my hair.

However, seller did voice message and text me via my cell phone around 10-11 pm last night with more threats and names. In particular if that cymbal wasn't "in the mail today" they would be "jetting up to see me (possibly with police) to put a "beat down" on me.....and "put me down." He said that was a promise and to share that info with anyone I wanted, they didn't care. I didn't really want to let the package sit with Staples Store all weekend. But after those messages, I'm getting rid of it and let Staples worry about it. I told the guy via message that if he comes up here he'll have to get it from Staples or break into the store if he comes after store hours. No reply to that. Seller only provided me with a return label at approx 4 pm EST yesterday. No time to get it out Friday 4/7. They had all day, and the day before to get me that label. Package will go out 17 hours AFTER receipt of the label.....or 0.1 business days. Friday was a holiday too.

I did have a link to my bank account on PayPal. So I ended that for fear the guy could go past my C/C and try to get into my bank via PayPal. I have no banking links on EBay since I have never sold there.....just PayPal C/C that my company said could not be claw backed in this instance. I can't rule out the guy trying to get money out of me once the cymbal is back in their possession and he claims 'damages'.....ie it's not in the "perfect good-used" condition it was when he shipped it.
 
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I bought a new K/Z hi-hat pair around 1991 and the bottom was so warped that the hats would not close properly.
 
ThomasL said:
I bought a new K/Z hi-hat pair around 1991 and the bottom was so warped that the hats would not close properly.
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I've had numerous condition issues on drums and cymbals from sellers on Reverb and Ebay. But all were handled within the EBay/Reverb systems. 90-95% amicably settled with seller's immediately apologizing for
any oversights and offering compensation. It's the remaining 5-10% where things get a bit heated. But, nothing like this current EAK fiasco. I think the guy felt it was my "duty" to dip into the refund money and pay for the label. After 24 hours of more abusive I messaged him a screen shot of the printed EBay policy on who pays for returns on items "not as described." That might have been the first time that they ever saw it. Probably should have done that right away. Next time I will. Shouldn't be my job to educate sellers who have been on EBay for 5 yrs or more. I normally assume a seller will look up the policy if they don't believe what I'm telling them. If I don't know an EBay policy I will look it up or call them and have them explain it to me. A lot of times their written policies aren't so clear.....or more often, they have no written policy on something I run across.
 
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Sorry this is happening to you. People can be nuts sometimes. That being said, I’ve dealt with guys like this dozens of times and they are all talk. They’ll likely continue to talk mess, because they’ve probably had people be verbally abusive to them throughout their lives and they’ve been conditioned to believe that’s what you do when you’re upset. But, people like this are all talk and the police certainly aren’t going to do anything over a $500 cymbal that eBay told them to refund. You’ve gone above and beyond to play nice with this douchebag. Block him on your devices and don’t worry about it anymore.
 
Tama CW said:
Yes the case was closed. But, it took a couple days to prove to the seller they were wrong and needed to supply the return label.....which only came late in the afternoon today,
about 3 hours BEFORE your post. Approx 150-200 messages from this seller, many of them threatening, many duplicates. I can't even drop the package off to UPS until Monday when they
reopen in my area.... and told the seller that. In the meantime they have all but promised police or court action IF that cymbal doesn't arrive back exactly as they shipped it....in other words
exactly like they "think" they remembered it (ie it had no observable flaws to them).....and unlike any of the "bad" photos I took.

In any event it's going out on Monday but I expect further abuse from this seller. in the coming weeks.
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After you ship it, block the seller and move on.
 
Cymbal was shipped out at 9:04 AM at Staples/UPS store. UPS will pick up on Monday and enter it into their tracking.

It's not over though because as soon as I came out of Staples a message was waiting for me on my phone. Seller gloated for about 5 minutes on how they
"beat me" on this transaction because I wasn't polite enough and didn't "earn" their respect properly. Reminds me of LT Chaffee addressing Col. Jessup at lunch in Guantanamo.
I was quite respectful when starting off the return. Went back and re-read it. They flat out refused to accept it....in nice terms. I doubt if I asked any nicer that things would have gone differently.

Included in the gloating call was seller re-stating that my table was still NOT FLAT and I proved nothing with a flat edge, caliper and other details....or even showing them other cymbals sitting on it that were
dead flat. They still believed all of my "bad" photos are "faked." The real icing on the cake was that they claimed EBay just awarded them a harrassment claim where EBay is giving to reverse the orig finding
and give them the $500. And that in the end I LOST....He WON.....because I wasn't nice enough to him. I found it odd the seller also said I had his cymbal for "a week" and should have spoke up earlier if I wanted a "nice" and "polite" return. Their math is not so good.......... Here's the time line...........

Paid 3/29. Seller drops off to UPS 3/29 at 4:28 pm. Delivery 4/4 at 4:38 pm. Filed claim 4/5 - 9 am. Seller gives refund BEFORE EBay makes a decision on the case - 4/6. Seller absolutely refuses to supply a return label despite
multiple requests......4/6 to 4/7. EBay closes the case on 4/6 or 4/7 because it's clear seller is not providing a return label. Seller finally provides a shipping label approx 4 pm on 4/7. Package shipped back on 4/8 at 9:10 am. I don't see a week here. Only 17 hrs from from label to UPS. Didn't have the package for a week as they claimed....only 3-1/2 days....most of that delay due to them refusing the return and/or the label.

I contacted both my CC Co. and EBay (4th time in 2 days) to see if any of his harrassment claims could be true. NOPE. EBay said it was all bogus. They closed the claim. There's no going back EVER per Ebay.
Done. Finis. QED. One of my pen pals here who is one of the world's experts in old K's said this has happened to them twice. Each time they won the claim and Ebay said they could keep
the item. The sellers were irate and went into hyper-drive threatening all sorts of things. His suggestion is to let it all burn out. Those guys eventually fizzle out and go poof when they realize
they aren't going to win. Suggested that in my case the guy probably didn't have the $45 available to buy a return label right away....never mind air fare for him to give me a "beat down." or the funds
to hire a lawyer. Seller confided in me early on that they had run into a pile of Zildjians at a pawn shop and bought them all for $100. And I suspect the 22 EAK was part of that score.

EBay still has the Feedback option opened on this transaction. Normally that's not an option for returns. But they told me I could leave FB for this guy. Since they only have 22 FB's so far this could put a
serious dent in their rating. But, I would no doubt get a "spew" back from the seller's reply comments.

Top and closest package on the floor pile is safely at Staples. I'm saving every chat, message, text, photo etc on this.......just in case.


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Last words from the seller:

​

And I am done with your dumb a$$. Do what you want. But......if it comes back as you described...... you will be responsible. ​


They've already pre-ordained the outcome. I'm probably going to regret sending it back. In a case like this I'd normally come to an agreement on value so that the cymbal doesn't have
to be shipped out again.....where no one but the shipper wins. Nearly every seller message on EBay and on my phone since yesterday is calling me a "lyer" or other permutations.

Wonder what I'm "responsible for" and how after returning a cymbal that EBay and my CC company told me to keep. ????? This is why deep down that by returning it...."no good deed goes unpunished."
Well, there's always the slim chance they will recognize that it's EXACTLY in the same condition before they shipped. Then again, he apparently didn't know about "warps".

So I doubt he's going to accept the damage in my photos. Will have to block cell phone and Ebay account by end of day. Never done it before to anyone. No clue. Easy to block buyers....but who blocks sellers?
Yes, you can exclude them from your seller's search lists. But how to block from messaging? Some on line blogs I'm reading suggest it's not possible to do that. They can be reported.....which I did. Though I don't sell
on EBay I placed them on my blocked buyer's list. Maybe that will work in a roundabout way? Some have suggested that. We'll see.
 
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Tama CW said:
Last words from the seller:

​

And I am done with your dumb a$$. Do what you want. But if it comes back as you described you will be responsible. ​


They've already pre-ordained the outcome. I'm probably going to regret sending it back. In a case like this I'd normally come to an agreement on value so that the cymbal doesn't have
to be shipped out again.....where no one but the shipper wins.

Wonder what I'm "responsible for" and how after returning a cymbal that EBay and my CC company told me to keep. ????? This is why deep down that by returning it...."no good deed goes unpunished."
Well, there's always the slim chance they will recognize that it's EXACTLY in the same condition before he shipped. Then again, he apparently didn't know about "warps."

So I doubt he's going to accept the damage in my photos. Will have to block cell phone and Ebay account by end of day. Never done it before to anyone. No clue. Easy to block buyers....but who blocks sellers?
Yes, you can exclude them from your seller's search lists. But how to block from messaging? Some on line blogs I'm reading suggest it's not possible to do that. They can be reported.....which I did. Though I don't sell
on EBay I placed them on my blocked buyer's list. Maybe that will work in a roundabout way? Some have suggested that. We'll see.
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Ironic that he says you faked the damage, but when he gets the cymbal back, the damage will be real.
 
hardbat said:
Ironic that he says you faked the damage, but when he gets the cymbal back, the damage will be real.
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Interesting way to say that. That's quite esoteric and philosophical. 100% certain they will not be happy with what they receive. Maybe they shouldn't have asked for a "return?"
My photos show exactly what you will get.....and shipping it again only adds to the damage potential.

I checked the seller's buyers FB info just for grins and ran across this from a seller who dealt with this guy. Sounds very much like what happened to me. This is the exact FB quote from EBay.
Apparently I wasn't the first one where these tactics were used.

NEGATIVE FEEDBACK - Sellers and Buyers BEWARE. I’ve been selling and buying on eBay since 2004 and have never dealt with someone that will do everything in their power to scam you for your item and their money back. I even included an expensive cable as a courtesy which wasn’t listed in my description. Vulgar, verbally abusive, racist, etc… eBay looked at our communications and the original listing and did an amazing job making it right.
 
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Is that the same "box" the seller shipped the cymbal to you in? I'd be super nervous if a $500 cymbal (or any cymbal) arrived in that thing.
 
KillinBill66 said:
Is that the same "box" the seller shipped the cymbal to you in? I'd be super nervous if a $500 cymbal (or any cymbal) arrived in that thing.
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Yeah, that's exact same box with the same internal bubble wrapped....reused. Has at most 1-1.5" of clearance on each side. I figure using any other box puts me at risk.
It's the same way with EBay returns where sellers require that you use the exact same packaging to get your refund. So I used their packing and wrapped the heck out of it
so it would stay sealed. Note that I told them and EBay this packaging was marginal but probably just sufficient. I even suggested to seller they might want to put that box into
another 26x26x6 box with more packing to make it bullet proof....at their expense of course. They said nothing. I even offered to take it to UPS and have them personally pack it to
gain full insurance coverage if damaged....at seller's expense of course. They said nothing. I took numerous photos of the repackaging and even added some additional 6-8" cardboard flap
re-inforcing on each of the 4 exposed edges.

Here's the box up arrival after cymbal removal. It's their label and their decision to ship it back in the "marginal" box. Seller only used one strip of tape to keep those wide
edges down....and it was unraveling upon delivery. That won't happen on the way back as I used another 50-100 ft of tape to triple wrap everything. It's better than a bare pizza box though.

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All the hub-bub over this - and boy there has been lots of it - is over the top IMO.

 
Tdipaul, all the hub bub over just that one photo is not the whole story. Are these side views of that same rippling area under the "K logo" "over the top" as well ?


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Tama CW said:
EBay still has the Feedback option opened on this transaction. Normally that's not an option for returns. But they told me I could leave FB for this guy.
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Carefull here. I had a similar experience and left negative feedback only to have eBay delete it, claiming that negative feedback cannot be left if the buyer received a full refund. Maybe try neutral feedback.
 
Man I don't miss ebay
How did you pay?
I always ran a complete separate checking account for PP. If you do this, I'd drain it to $1.00 yesterday. And just start another ebay account.
 
Definitely leave Negative feedback. Scumbags like this should not be selling on eBay.

I would have sold the cymbal after getting the refund and sent him the link to the sale. I'm sure that would have been worth another 30 threatening messages full of hot air.
 
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