Liking 50s A’s versus Ks?

[kookel]

I’m diggin the trans- and large stamps, especially since they’re so versatile and the shoulder crash on these is just heavenly. Some are so dark and rather dry, just amazing.

In general, anybody liking these pies as much as or actually prefer them to old Ks?

I do have a stash of old Ks, all sizes, BTW.

 

[Tama CW]

I generally prefer the trans stamps and "some" large stamps over the old K's....if only for their much lower pricing while still getting a lot of
that old time trashy, hand hammered vibe from that period. And the old A's are usually more sizzly than the old K's. If you look hard enough
you can find trans stamps with both sizzle (ie highs) but also some of the old K trashiness (see video below).

With the large stamps, what I've run into are typically overly dark and focused on the mid-range and lows. I find the shoulder and full crashes
on most 18-24's to be somewhat gongy, even on the lighter ones. Almost too deep and too dry. There are exceptions though.

On hi hats my go to ones are always trans stamps. I do have a couple pairs of excellent old K hats, including 15" 3b's. Yet it's the 14/15"
trans stamps that I usually play.....possibly because I came too late to the old K's and my brain is programmed for the sizzly old A's. My go to ride cymbal
is a 22" New Stamp. I have a couple medium 22" large stamp/trans stamps I use at times. But, they haven't yet gotten nearly the play time of the 22 NS.

Here's a beautiful sounding 19" trans stamp.

 

[bobsyouruncle]

I generally prefer the trans stamps and "some" large stamps over the old K's....if only for there much lower pricing while still getting a lot of
that old time trashy, hand hammered vibe from that period. And the old A's are usually more sizzly than the old K's. If you look hard enough
you can find trans stamps with both sizzle (ie highs) but also some of the old K trashiness.

With the large stamps, what I've run into are typically overly dark and focused on the mid-range and lows. I find the shoulder and full crashes
on most 18-24's to be somewhat gongy, even on lighter ones. Almost too deep and too dry. There are exceptions though.

I'm going to estimate that I've played maybe six or eight large stamp 22s, and this is the way they all came off to me. There's actually smaller stamp 20 at a store near me, I don't know the date, it looks like a 60's cymbal though. But I really like that sound better than the deep roar of the 22s.

Most of my K are a little bit heavier as well to get a little mire brightness, 2000 to 2200 on the 20s and my old stamp 22 is about 24-2500 g. I don't do light and trashy that well.

 

[Tama CW]

There's actually smaller stamp 20 at a store near me, I don't know the date, it looks like a 60 cymbal though. But I really like that sound better than the deep roar of the 22s.

I can't disagree with that. I have a number of 20-21 inch trans stamps, and one "freakish" large stamp that I really like. Guess I keep "trying" to shoe horn a great 22
or larger into that group. And it's not easy. Finding great 18's and 22's seems hard. 19's to 21's are easier imo. I may eventually realize that the answer was
always in the 19-21 inch range when it comes to old A's. But I have heard some exceptional 22's "on video" to suggest, they are out there.

You can find some wonderful 20's from "the 60's" too (ie stamped as 60's). I've had 2 of those in the 1800-1900 gm range that were every bit as good
as similarly weighted trans stamp A's. But, the lathing/hammering wasn't as obvious. In each case I placed them with needy jazzers at a price they couldn't refuse.

 

[bobsyouruncle]

I can't disagree with that. I have a number of 20-21 inch trans stamps, and one "freakish" large stamp that I really like. Guess I keep "trying" to shoe horn a great 22
or larger into that group. And it's not easy. Finding great 18's and 22's seems hard. 19's to 21's are easier imo. I may eventually realize that the answer was
always in the 19-21 inch range when it comes to old A's. But I have heard some exceptional 22's "on video" to suggest, they are out there.

You can find some wonderful 20's from "the 60's" too (ie stamped as 60's). I've had 2 of those in the 1800-1900 gm range that were every bit as good
as similarly weighted trans stamp A's. But, the lathing/hammering wasn't as obvious. In each case I placed them with needy jazzers at a price they couldn't refuse.

I was gonna send a private message, but I'll just post it here. If you happen to see a particularly good 21 available, maybe send a message my way ?

Best to you of course

 

[pork]

I'm probably in the minority here, but I greatly prefer the sound of New Stamp Ks and 40s/50s As to Old Stamps and especially Intermediate Stamps.

 

[slcdrummer]

I was gonna send a private message, but I'll just post it here. If you happen to see a particularly good 21 available, maybe send a message my way ?

Best to you of course

Sent you a message!

 

[1988fxlr]

Late 50’s A’s are my favorite cymbals of everything I’ve ever laid a stick to. Good small stamps seem to be the perfect blend of brightness and warmth to my ears

 

[trashman]

In general, anybody liking these pies as much as or actually prefer them to old Ks?

Not I.
I've had some truly excellent 1940s and 1950s A. Zildjians, but I seem to like them most when they sound less like A's and more like K's, and even my favorite of old A's haven't held a candle to the better old K's I've had (for my liking).
I do think the A. Zildjian tone from that time is probably going to be more universally appealing than the old K's that I like, and probably more versatile as well, but when I can get away from the sibilant 'zing' present in most old A's, I'm happier.

 

[kookel]

Not I.
I've had some truly excellent 1940s and 1950s A. Zildjians, but I seem to like them most when they sound less like A's and more like K's, and even my favorite of old A's haven't held a candle to the better old K's I've had (for my liking).
I do think the A. Zildjian tone from that time is probably going to be more universally appealing than the old K's that I like, and probably more versatile as well, but when I can get away from the sibilant 'zing' present in most old A's, I'm happier.

I think that’s what I like about my A’s; that they have similar characteristics to the old Ks.

 

[Tama CW]

I was gonna send a private message, but I'll just post it here. If you happen to see a particularly good 21 available, maybe send a message my way ?

Best to you of course

I have a "keeper" 21" type 3 brilliant finish (2392 gm) that was the first trans stamp ride cymbal I ever bought...."way" back in 2019.
2 yrs ago I thought I found a better 21 on Reverb at a very light <2000 gm and "affordable." It "should" have been a Holy Grail at that weight.
It turned out to have a number of undescribed significant flaws. And even worse, tonally it sounded very plain imo. It was returned.
Just a note that I have couple of "keeper" 20's that sound very much like that 21"......20" at 1773 gm and a 20" at 1875 gm. And because
of that I really can't pair them up in the kit as they cover much the same ground. So don't sell the 20's short....or over-rate the potential of the 21's.

 

[Tama CW]

I'm probably in the minority here, but I greatly prefer the sound of New Stamp Ks and 40s/50s As to Old Stamps and especially Intermediate Stamps.

Interesting comment. Finding that "just right" sounding old stamp is the key. Right now I'm right with you as I have a 22 NS medium weight
main ride/crash. And the other cymbals are trans stamps. I have other old K's I could put in there....but I like the way the trans stamps mix in.
I'm also choosing trans stamps that are part way to sounding like old K's with a more "crunchy" and focused tone.

I have some old K intermediate stamp hats and 18" crash/ride but just can't keep them on the kit when I give them a try every few months....
because of the stark, icy/cool sound they give. New Stamps are warmer. In fact I had a 20" type 2a old stamp (2100 gm) that I though would work
well on the kit when I was ordering it. But once in hand, it sounded a lot like my "cranky" yet warm 22 NS. So I couldn't justify keeping it around.

 

[AtlantaDrumGuy]

I do love old Ks, but some of the old As can be real nice. I have some of both.

 

[JMan]

I’m diggin the trans- and large stamps, especially since they’re so versatile and the shoulder crash on these is just heavenly. Some are so dark and rather dry, just amazing.

In general, anybody liking these pies as much as or actually prefer them to old Ks?

I do have a stash of old Ks, all sizes, BTW.

I wouldnt say that I prefer them to old k’s in general, but I certainly appreciate them. You can definitely find some gems amongst the old A’s, and on a cymbal to cymbal basis, I could definitely see choosing a vintage A to K. They have their own kind of thing going on.

Also, I could be wrong, but I think Brian Blade’s main ride for a long time was an old 24” A.

 

[JMan]

Interesting comment. Finding that "just right" sounding old stamp is the key. Right now I'm right with you as I have a 22 NS medium weight
main ride/crash. And the other cymbals are trans stamps. I have other old K's I could put in there....but I like the way the trans stamps mix in.
I'm also choosing trans stamps that are part way to sounding like old K's with a more "crunchy" and focused tone.

I have some old K intermediate stamp hats and 18" crash/ride but just can't keep them on the kit when I give them a try every few months....
because of the stark, icy/cool sound they give. New Stamps are warmer. In fact I had a 20" type 2a old stamp (2100 gm) that I though would work
well on the kit when I was ordering it. But once in hand, it sounded a lot like my "cranky" yet warm 22 NS. So I couldn't justify keeping it around.

NS’s definitely have a different vibe. I was lucky to pick up a pair of 15” hi hats that are absolutely gorgeous. Then again, I also have a pair of 13.5” Intermediates that are also magical. different flavors, but the NS’s have a much wider tonal range.

I also really dig Canadian K’s!

 

[AtlantaDrumGuy]

^ Brian did use a 24” A for a long time. I found one similar to his about 15 years ago from Steve Maxwell. Nice and thin 1950s era. I love that cymbal. Brian began using a Spizz as the main, and those sound great too. I met him a few times, and got to briefly check out his pies as he was packing up.

I have an old K 20” with a few rivets, and it’s an excellent crash/ride. More of a sweeter-dark sound for a K. Not as much dragon’s breath on that one. I have some 15” old K hats that sound like nothing else made today.

I have a 22” medium weight hollow block with rivets, and that has a Ginger Baker vibe. Love that one too.

I’ll admit I’m a cymbal nut.

 

[JMan]

Oh wow, cool! Yeah I thought he changed things up, but I didn’t know it was to a Spizz. That 24” was so beautiful though. I think that’s the one that Funch based the Perceptual ride off of.

 

[AtlantaDrumGuy]

Yes, he has played the two Spizz setup for awhile now. I seem to recall the old A had a crack, but not sure what happened exactly. It was a beauty. But the Spizz sound just as great. He was with Wayne when I saw him.