Paiste Ludwig cymbals--what's the scoop?

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drumbum38

drumbum38

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I was hoping to get some input about these vintage Ludwig cymbals. I see them sell pretty cheap sometimes (compared to most). Some say "Standard". I was specifically interested in the thin stuff (all types). Are they undesirable or just not AS desirable as the vintage Zildjians and such? Any feedback is appreciated :icon_smile: Thanks

Eric
 
They're still commonly seen even though they've been out of production for decades.
NS12 (nickel/silver alloy)
Not anything special tonewise, IMO. and nothing I'd want to gig with.
Still, they're kinda cool to have if you're fond of vintage Ludwigs products.
 
They aren't worth much but they are hip cymbals if you're looking for thinner, trashy, dark sounds.
 
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i've got two pair s of 14" hats, & I like 'em okay. Mostly 'cuz they're what were being sold when my Ludwigs were new. I'd like a 20" ride & a 18" for the same reason. Never played a ride--could be nice, but I wouldn't count on it...marko
 
I have a pair of Paiste "Super" cymbals which I believe are quite comparable. They're also from the early 60's, made in Switzerland and made of nickel-silver. Mine are 14" and 18" Extremely Thin Crashes; they're so thin that there are stick-dings in the upper surfaces. It's probably true that the resale value isn't too high, mainly because most people don't know about them and don't search for them. I got both of mine for under $25 each. I think that was a great price on very old vintage cymbals, and they have a unique sound that you don't get from B20 bronze.
 
Thanks guys. So more nostalgic value than sound value I guess. That's cool. I might pick up a cheapo sometime to try then. I appreciate the feedback. :icon_smile:
 
I have a bunch of them,Ludwig standards,Stanoples,supers,ect.....Some of them are great and again some are crap....its hit and miss with them....The key is to get them cheap and you might get a score.......I am a firm believer that it dont have to be expensive to sound good........
 
I wanted some of those when I was a kid. They were right there in the Ludwig "Dream Book" (catalog) along with the new sets and it seemed like a no-brainer to just get your cymbals at the same time. By the time I got a new set Ludwig had dropped them (there were some serious breakage and warranty issues that Ludwig suffered through with these according to Bill Ludwig Jr.'s autobiography). Also, by the time I could afford actual "pro-line" cymbals I was already indoctrinated to be a "Zildjian" guy.

However, after recently discovering how nice Paiste 602's can sound, I reconsidered the Ludwig Paiste's...which I thought might be similar to the 602s...guess what?...they aren't. Even so I am still predisposed to owning one or more(almost anything that says "Ludwig" on it interests me). But I don't have any because, even as cheap as the ones I've run across have been, every one I've heard sounds like absolute crap. Of course that is not conclusive evidence that they all did...it could simply mean that I've been unlucky, or that folks hold onto the good ones...or maybe that the thinner, nicer sounding ones, all got broken years ago.
 
wow! what a blast from the past to see those ads and the prices from so far back
must be a late 60s catalog with the SE 602 hats and stanople's still being offered ?
i have a early-mid 70s? catalog featuring the new Vistalites's
they list ludwig standard cymbals and zildjians but no prices.
 
K.O. said:
every one I've heard sounds like absolute crap.
Click to expand...
Lol!
Ya know, I was tempted to type that myself but decided not to put so bluntly.
biggrin.gif
 
K.O. said:
it could simply mean that I've been unlucky, or that folks hold onto the good ones...or maybe that the thinner, nicer sounding ones, all got broken years ago.
Click to expand...
Well, I own two Extremely Thins that somehow survived. They're Supers, not Ludwigs though. :rolleyes:
 
EvEnStEvEn said:
K.O. said:
every one I've heard sounds like absolute crap.
Click to expand...
Lol!
Ya know, I was tempted to type that myself but decided not to put so bluntly.
biggrin.gif
Click to expand...

:lol: Well I did offer a disclaimer (in the interest of trying to be diplomatic)....I'm only speaking about the ones I've personally heard...and I further listed three possible reasons why those all sounded like "crap". I actually WANTED them to sound good, because they were generally under $40 and I'd love to buy one, but I'm not wasting even a little money on a crappy sounding cymbal I'd never use (well maybe if it were stamped "K. Zildjian, Istanbul").

I know this much...short of someone outright giving me one of those cymbals I wouldn't pay for one that I hadn't heard, because past experience dictates that it's unlikely to be a cymbal sound I'm looking for.
 
I appreciate the honest and thorough reply Kevin. I admire your tactfulness once again. I NEEDED to hear the word crap though. LOL That word may have saved me some money, so thank you for that. :wink:

I asked because I was clueless. You guys have clued me in and now I can make an educated decision about whether or not I want to risk spending (wasting) my money on them. I was hoping for better reviews obviously, but I knew there had to be a reason they were cheap. Funny thing is.......in the catalog pic K.O. posted, the prices are about the same as now. LOL How often do you see that?

Thanks all for taking the time to reply. I now know the scoop.
(The good news is...... I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance) :blackeye:
 
like coe, ive also got an 18" super. it weighs in at 1100 grams. i would classify it as a fast trash crash. not that you would throw the crash in the trash fast... <_< it would just be an effects type cymbal to me. nothing that would serve an ongoing purpose in the kit. i do like it though for its strange sound...


mike
 
mountainhick said:
What alloy are the supers? Rabe has them listed as B20..??
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I've looked at Rabe's site and I think there may be 2 variants of the Paiste Super. The 2 that I have are definitely nickel-silver, not B20. Mine only say "Super", have the logo, and "Switzerland". When you place these cymbals beside a B20, you can easily see how they're more silver-colored.

The first one I got was an 18" Extremely Thin Crash, no doubt the weight also plays a role in the sound. Here's the post I made comparing it with an old Zilco by Azco (B20) cymbal, I won the two of them for $50. Super on the left.

EDIT: I can't comment on the Paiste Ludwigs sound-wise, though. They may all sound like crap, for all I know. I just figured the info would be useful to share because at least my two Supers appear to be made from nickel-silver, like the Ludwig cymbals...and both being Extremely Thin weight, they sound quite nice and have unique undertones. I personally don't think they sound like crap, fwiw. :)
 
Coelacanth said:
mountainhick said:
What alloy are the supers? Rabe has them listed as B20..??
Click to expand...
I've looked at Rabe's site and I think there may be 2 variants of the Paiste Super. The 2 that I have are definitely nickel-silver, not B20. Mine only say "Super", have the logo, and "Switzerland". When you place these cymbals beside a B20, you can easily see how they're more silver-colored.

The first one I got was an 18" Extremely Thin Crash, no doubt the weight also plays a role in the sound. Here's the post I made comparing it with an old Zilco by Azco (B20) cymbal, I won the two of them for $50. Super on the left.

EDIT: I can't comment on the Paiste Ludwigs sound-wise, though. They may all sound like crap, for all I know. I just figured the info would be useful to share because at least my two Supers appear to be made from nickel-silver, like the Ludwig cymbals...and both being Extremely Thin weight, they sound quite nice and have unique undertones. I personally don't think they sound like crap, fwiw. :)
Click to expand...

I don't doubt that those Supers sound nice. I think the Ludwig's were a whole different animal...at least the ones I've heard. I've never run across a single one that I would classify as being "thin" let alone "extremely thin".

The whole Paiste-Ludwig pairing was pretty much a complete fiasco according to Bill Ludwig Jr's autobiography (in a chapter headed "Million Dollar Stumble"). First of all Ludwig lost their access to Zildjians because Avedis Zildjian took offense to their importing the Paistes (as WFL SR. had warned Junior that he would). Then they started getting all sorts of warranty Paiste returns due to breakage. Ludwig got thousands of cymbals returned and replaced them out of their stock but then Paiste refused to replace those cymbals, stating that they broke because the players were hitting them too hard, not because they were defective. Ludwig got stuck with the bill for replacing all those cymbals. It's possible that this may be the reason that so many of these cymbals seem to trend towards being "manhole covers" as at some point Paiste may have thickened them up in response to all the breakage (much as Zildjian seems to have done to the A line over the past decade or so).

Like I said, I'd love to find a nice sounding example just to have around...but I haven't found one yet.
 
Yesterday when I was scouring eBay, I must've seen at least a half-dozen Paiste Ludwig cymbals up for grabs. Prices were pretty low, too...I suppose they might be semi-collectible due to the age and association with Ludwig.
 
I found a 14" Stanople once and it sounds like it was a bottom HH .... has a nice gongy sound ... best way I can describe it here. I kept it as an effects cymbal and that's about the most I can get out of it.


Robb
 
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