Phil Rudd - “I’ve never used a click track”

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Frank Godiva

Frank Godiva

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It feels like I spend my whole musical life playing with drum machines, clicks, loops, tracks, stems and metronomes. But my favorite moments are when it's completely organic and flowing. That is when music is special for me personally.
 
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I'm to the point I feel a little anxiety if I don't at least have LiveBPM to show me what I'd doing wrong (or right).
 
As a kid my mother could barely afford to drive me to lessons, much less buying a metronome. I’ve never used any type of timing device; I’d be afraid I would be trying too hard keeping with the beat than feeling the music. If you have a good bass player and play the music with feeling; why does it matter if it’s not absolutely perfect?

sherm
 
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I personally like rehearsing and recording with a click and spent a lot of down time during the pandemic doing just that.

I prefer to not have it live, but I'm not playing in complicated live situations with backing tracks /loops.

I set the click on cowbell mode and pretend that Will Ferrell and Christopher Walken are in the room with me.

That said there is absolutely nothing in my opinion that compares to a band that is completely and organically playing with each other timewise, even if the time ebbs and flows idiosyncratically.

That’s an emotional part of musical pulse that hits me at a visceral level.

I recognize that some people might have a perfect sense of time, akin to perfect pitch, and these variations could drive them crazy.
 
p83 said:
a wise man says - we prefer to hire drummers that do not need remedial tempo assistance.
Click to expand...
Not really that wise, that wise man.... clicks are rarely used because drummers need tempo assistance... Prior to the mid-80's, clicks were only rarely used on music recordings..... they were almost entirely used in film (action scenes only), commercials (to nail that 29.5 second length), and cartoons (again, because of so much precise action on screen that needed catching).

Prior to 1980, 99% of the time when a click would be used, it was because the session players were having serious problems holding the tempo.... and the reality is, we never heard 99% of those recordings. (There are tons of failed session recordings that never get released). Fact: The lion's share of disco records didn't even use a click.

The reason click's started to show up on music dates (album dates) was because of the desire to utilize sequencers. At that time (1980), sequences couldn't follow anything. They had their own clock - their own tempo setting. And the only option was to push start and stop.

This meant that all sequencer parts had to be recorded at the same time - and they got to set the tempo - they were The Click.

This was a point of great conflict within the session community (players and producers). Have the players follow along to the sequencer's "groove" or lay down a track with live players and have a keyboard player try and mimic the sequencer parts.

There really was no winning concept here - both methods were used for years.

But that's not the end of the story....

Within the next ten years would come the emergence of the Digital Audio Workstation. As well as a shrinking of recording budgets. Plus evolving styles, etc. Reduced budgets meant more extensive demoing (general at home)... it costs a boatload to rent a big studio, hire a bunch of players to then work out a treatment of a song - that the artist/label/producer may not end up liking. It was deemed better - to spend time - and less money - honing the concept in the demo phase and then move to the bigger production.

So just like the sequencer, we started seeing the demo used as the "master" foundation - with all of the other parts... drums, bass, guitars being recording separately - replacing their demo counterparts.

And so again, as drummers, we were playing to a click for no reason that had anything to do with our lack time keeping ability.... but because of production decisions that were cheaper and deemed safer.

This part of production has just continued ever since. It still happens - but is a rarity, generally at the top end of work situations, for something to be recorded with a full rhythm section plus singer - recording a proper basic track in one pass. Most everything is created through a process of layering.

All that said - the thing that stumps me is all of these young players are opting to - actually purposefully choosing to - play to a click in all situations. Utter Idiocy in my opinion.

Because IMO to really play to a click well - you really have to be able to play without a click well.

Clicks are necessary evils. Their use is always a compromise. If they are needed - to sync to something - then fine.... a necessary evil.
 
Sorry forgot - so look at the dates that Paul Rudd recorded with AC/DC and his never using clicks makes sense. Earlier recordings - it just wasn't a thing. Later on.... now in the modern world, we can record a "live" session and straighten out any time issues after the fact.
 
dcrigger said:
Not really that wise, that wise man.... clicks are rarely used because drummers need tempo assistance... Prior to the mid-80's, clicks were only rarely used on music recordings..... they were almost entirely used in film (action scenes only), commercials (to nail that 29.5 second length), and cartoons (again, because of so much precise action on screen that needed catching).

Prior to 1980, 99% of the time when a click would be used, it was because the session players were having serious problems holding the tempo.... and the reality is, we never heard 99% of those recordings. (There are tons of failed session recordings that never get released). Fact: The lion's share of disco records didn't even use a click.

The reason click's started to show up on music dates (album dates) was because of the desire to utilize sequencers. At that time (1980), sequences couldn't follow anything. They had their own clock - their own tempo setting. And the only option was to push start and stop.

This meant that all sequencer parts had to be recorded at the same time - and they got to set the tempo - they were The Click.

This was a point of great conflict within the session community (players and producers). Have the players follow along to the sequencer's "groove" or lay down a track with live players and have a keyboard player try and mimic the sequencer parts.

There really was no winning concept here - both methods were used for years.

But that's not the end of the story....

Within the next ten years would come the emergence of the Digital Audio Workstation. As well as a shrinking of recording budgets. Plus evolving styles, etc. Reduced budgets meant more extensive demoing (general at home)... it costs a boatload to rent a big studio, hire a bunch of players to then work out a treatment of a song - that the artist/label/producer may not end up liking. It was deemed better - to spend time - and less money - honing the concept in the demo phase and then move to the bigger production.

So just like the sequencer, we started seeing the demo used as the "master" foundation - with all of the other parts... drums, bass, guitars being recording separately - replacing their demo counterparts.

And so again, as drummers, we were playing to a click for no reason that had anything to do with our lack time keeping ability.... but because of production decisions that were cheaper and deemed safer.

This part of production has just continued ever since. It still happens - but is a rarity, generally at the top end of work situations, for something to be recorded with a full rhythm section plus singer - recording a proper basic track in one pass. Most everything is created through a process of layering.

All that said - the thing that stumps me is all of these young players are opting to - actually purposefully choosing to - play to a click in all situations. Utter Idiocy in my opinion.

Because IMO to really play to a click well - you really have to be able to play without a click well.

Clicks are necessary evils. Their use is always a compromise. If they are needed - to sync to something - then fine.... a necessary evil.
Click to expand...
This is the kind of erudite answer and information that keeps me coming back again and again to this forum.

Thank you, sir!
 
I've been told that I have great timing too but still feel the need to use a click live. Just a bit too lazy to add more gear to my setup.
 
AgDrumma07 said:
I've been told that I have great timing too but still feel the need to use a click live. Just a bit too lazy to add more gear to my setup.
Click to expand...
Not to start an argument, but may I ask why you feel that way? Are you playing contemporary dance music? Are your bandmates unhappy with your timing?
 
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