question about playing outside and cymbal size

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p83

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i have an outdoor show next week. it is a 3 day festival with 5 bands a day. it is a professional situation with backline gear and everything miked up. i will be bringing my own snare and cymbals.

all things being equal, does size matter? how much does being outside make a cymbal get lost in the wind if it's miked up?

i can go 24/20/19/16 hat, 22/18/16/15 hat, 20/15/14/15 hat, or any combination.

should i go a certain direction, or just play what i want?
 
Like @Pat A Flafla, I dig larger cymbals outside, but I don't think it matters if it's a pro sound thing. I'd choose what you want to play more based on what's best for the band's sound. I'm still amazed by Charlie using 14" hats, a thin 20" ride and a 16" thin crash playing stadiums around the world.
 
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I have my indoor and outdoors cymbal selections, but when it comes to rides, size ISNT everything. I was at a gig with drums miked, and a couple of overhead mics. 15 hats and 18/20 crashes all good, but one band member said he couldnt hear the ride cymbal on stage, which was a 24" A Zildjian.....I guess a late 60's/early 70's so not really heavy, didnt cut thru like a 20" manhole cover weight of a later cymbal. So, for outdoors, Im keen on the heavy cymbal for the ride, others are just the bigger sizes I have.
 
I'd say bring what you're most comfortable with and what works best for the music. If it's truly is a pro production, they'll close mic all the drums and have overhead mics for the cymbals. The overheads are your friend, and the key to your cymbals being heard, regardless of their size and weight. Without mics, any cymbal gets lost outdoors (beyond the stage).

Outdoor shows are my least favorite because we drummers are totally dependent on the PA and FOH engineer. Hopefully you'll have good monitors - without good monitors (or any monitor), the live sound of acoustic (un-mic'd) drums and cymbals outdoors can be abysmal from behind the kit and just plain uninspiring. At least that's what I've found...

Sorry to be a downer... I just don't enjoy the tactics of playing outdoors - give me a good sounding club or indoor venue, where I can hear and feel my drums.

By the way, Charlie Watts' flat ride is an 18" not a 20" and it was close mic'd, which is what most pro acts do nowadays. They close mic the ride and hi hats and use overheads for the crashes. Good luck with the show!
 
I’ve actually got a set of slightly thicker versions of my current cymbals (Agop) to use for outdoor playing. I find it helps with providing articulation so I don’t have to rely as heavily on my need for monitors, which I hate using. I think they help the band to lock in a bit better too.

I agree with John DeChristopher in preferring inside vs outside performance venues.
 
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I use 18 & 20 or 19 & 21 inch crashes all the time so not something I think about. But typically a higher pitched cymbal will carry further than a lower pitched cymbal.
 
Playing on an outdoor stage is always difficult because the stage acoustics are very different with no walls to contain the sound. So everything tends to disappear into the air. I always find I tend to play a little harder outside because of this so I generally use larger crash cymbals so I can hear them better. As far as monitors go, a multi band event means you will most likely have very little time to switch over and will probably be given a pretty generic drum mix. Likely there will be one on stage tech for monitor mix (if that) and the sound crew will mostly worry about the FOH sound. But if you just go with the flow it can make for an interesting and fun gig.
 
I use 18 & 20 or 19 & 21 inch crashes all the time so not something I think about. But typically a higher pitched cymbal will carry further than a lower pitched cymbal.
Yes, in a room with walls and a ceiling, this is usually the case. I wouldn't say a higher pitched cymbal will carry further, it's a higher frequency that might (or might not) cut through better. But outdoors, that all goes out the window (pun intended). You won't hear anything past the stage without mics.

Playing on an outdoor stage is always difficult because the stage acoustics are very different with no walls to contain the sound. So everything tends to disappear into the air. I always find I tend to play a little harder outside because of this so I generally use larger crash cymbals so I can hear them better. As far as monitors go, a multi band event means you will most likely have very little time to switch over and will probably be given a pretty generic drum mix. Likely there will be one on stage tech for monitor mix (if that) and the sound crew will mostly worry about the FOH sound. But if you just go with the flow it can make for an interesting and fun gig.
I agree. And I meant to add in my comment, if you have your own in-ears, that's the best way to guarantee a good (or at least reasonable) monitor mix. Having a good monitor mix will reduce your temptation to play harder, which is only natural when you can't hear yourself. And playing harder can lead to guitar players turning up, and the singer wanting their monitor louder and it feeding back, and then before you know it, a good stage mix goes out the window (pun intended again).
 
By the way, Charlie Watts' flat ride is an 18" not a 20" and it was close mic'd, which is what most pro acts do nowadays. They close mic the ride and hi hats and use overheads for the crashes. Good luck with the show!

@John DeChristopher, I was talking about the no left side cymbal timeframe in my post. This era, whatever it is. Before the flat ride and the UFIP.

IMG_2257.jpeg
 
Outdoors "pro" stages can vary wildly. I've seen pretty much every sizes and shapes from large/open stage-lines, bandshells, rotundas, partial tents, flatbed trailers, even a container with the side cut open!! No need to tell you, those also have wildly different acoustic properties...

The same goes for "pro sound".
Just because it is provided by a shop/venue/event doesn't at all 100% guarantees the PA/monitors are of decent quality/working order, nor that the staff operating it is qualified or care enough to do a good job.

Then again, you can get there and they have audiophile-quality sound and a top notch engineer.

If I were you I'd bring my prefered setup with maybe a few smaller/quieter replacements in case it turns out to be a more challenging acoustic environment.
 
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