REMO EMPERORS!!!! >:|

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Grooovepig

Grooovepig

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I purchased a Gretsch Renown RN2 kit last year which I have really been digging. These drums came equipped with Remo clear Emperors on top and Ambassadors on bottom.

Band "season" is starting up again and I thought I would change the batters out for fresh ones. For the life of me, I could not get these Emperors to sit flush on the bearing edge. You could rock them back and forth and they didn't sit flush with the edge of the drum. Naturally, when I went to tension up the head it had dead spots around the edge where it couldn't produce a clear pitch. Tons of harmonic overtones in other places. It was impossible to get the drum "in tune with itself.

I resorted to the "tuning the wrinkles" out method which helped a little. This is where you put some pressure in the center of the head and tune the drum until the wrinkles go away.

My questions are:

- Is this an issue with Remo Emperors? I've run into this issue before in the past.
- Is this a Renown issue? Do they make their shells slightly oversize?
- Will Remo ever come up with a Level 360 type design where heads will freely "spin" on the drum and become easier to form to the bearing edge?

I really don't want to switch to Evans as I really love the tone of Emps over Ambs on these drums.

Can any experts shine a light on what's happening here? BTW, I am not a noob to tuning. I'd like to think I have considerable skill in this area.

Thanks,
Joe
 
Remo really should add the Emporers to the Classic Fit line.

You could try overtightening the heads and leave them overnight to stretch in. I think some play time will help settle them too.

Since in your case you had room to rock them back and forth I guess Classic Fit won't help. Any chance the heads are bent? Do they sit flat on a table top?
 
shiek_yerbouti said:
Remo really should add the Emporers to the Classic Fit line.

You could try overtightening the heads and leave them overnight to stretch in. I think some play time will help settle them too.

Since in your case you had room to rock them back and forth I guess Classic Fit won't help. Any chance the heads are bent? Do they sit flat on a table top?
Click to expand...

I don't think they're bent. I encountered this issue on both the 10" and 12". I alsways inspect the heads before I buy and do the "tap" test to check for tone.

I was thinking about trying the overtighten and leave overnight method, so thanks..
 
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I've run into the same thing with my Gretsch drums and Remo heads. I even had the same problem with Remo Classic Fit heads on a round badge kit. Evans 360's fit great, so that's what I've started using.
 
Never had a problem with Emperors or Pinstripes, if they don't fit perfectly from the start they always sound great after giving them a firm palm push in the center.
 
I use coated Vintage Emperors on all my drums, including on a set of 2014 Gretsch Renowns. No issues.

I was told that the "Vintage" in "Vintage Emperor" had to do with the ply and thickness as they were years ago, but not having to do with diameter. Maybe I was steered wrong?

Anyway, they fit and sound great!
 
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Grooovepig said:
I purchased a Gretsch Renown RN2 kit last year which I have really been digging. These drums came equipped with Remo clear Emperors on top and Ambassadors on bottom.

Band "season" is starting up again and I thought I would change the batters out for fresh ones. For the life of me, I could not get these Emperors to sit flush on the bearing edge. You could rock them back and forth and they didn't sit flush with the edge of the drum. Naturally, when I went to tension up the head it had dead spots around the edge where it couldn't produce a clear pitch. Tons of harmonic overtones in other places. It was impossible to get the drum "in tune with itself.

I resorted to the "tuning the wrinkles" out method which helped a little. This is where you put some pressure in the center of the head and tune the drum until the wrinkles go away.

My questions are:

- Is this an issue with Remo Emperors? I've run into this issue before in the past.
- Is this a Renown issue? Do they make their shells slightly oversize?
- Will Remo ever come up with a Level 360 type design where heads will freely "spin" on the drum and become easier to form to the bearing edge?

I really don't want to switch to Evans as I really love the tone of Emps over Ambs on these drums.

Can any experts shine a light on what's happening here? BTW, I am not a noob to tuning. I'd like to think I have considerable skill in this area.

Thanks,
Joe
Click to expand...
another thought.... Remos don't sit flat because they fit on the collar, they rounded edge, Not on the head. There's often lots of movement back and forth. I personally don't think this is unusual as long as it sits in the hoop.
 
I've had this kind of issue with Remo before. Are you having to tune them higher than you'd like to get the wrinkles out or is it ok? I'd definitely tighten them up past wrinkle and let them sit till tomorrow and retune. It'll probably be fine.
 
I’ve never had a Remo head sit flush on any bearing edge, there’s always rock. This is part of Remo’s collar design and part of their sound, I hope they never change it. If you want minimum effort than get an Evans, but Remo sound ”better” than anything else (they have more color/tone/sustain than anything else. Might not be your thing if you want a pre-eq’d sound)
 
Same experience here: Remos hardly ever sit perfectly flat from the get-go. However, I put them on, tune them up evenly, crank them up highish to stretch, with some pressure on the head now and then.

I usually let the head stretch overnight, then retune to normal range the next day, and they're fine.

Since Evans came out with their head-seating innovations, it seems like some feel that a drumhead that doesn't seat really well from the start is somehow defective and can't be tuned...not true. It's just that Evans managed to take a lot of stretch time out of the equation.

I have no issues with Remos needing some stretch. Once they're there, they sound great and they last a long time without losing tone...which also has a lot of merit.
 
I've had the same frustration with Remo from time to time. Especially on Gretsch, but when I tried the Evans, the problem just moved.. they were fine on the drum but very sloppy in the hoop. I'm currently running Aquarian on my toms, but will probably go back to Remo at some point. They just have the sound and it seems like you just have to put up with the other issues. Considering the number of players who make it work, I think it's safe to say it's possible.
 
I've had pretty much every Remo head on non-Gretsch drums sit level and not rock back and forth. I won't use one if it does unless it's an emergency. Formed plastic collars aren't going to permanently change their shape by cranking the heads down. Even if it looks like they do, it's just temporary - the memory of the plastic will want to push back.
The reason that the Evans 360 heads fit some drums better has nothing to do with stretch time - it's the shape of the collar. It looks to me that it is more straight up and down than Remo, which, on slightly over-sized drums, puts the flat playing surface of the head on the bearing edge instead of on the collar. Even on the Classic fit heads, the angle of the collar is the same - it's just the aluminum hoop that is narrower. I tried a Classic Fit on a 12" Gretsch RB tom, and while it fit over the shell just fine, the collar still ended up sitting on the bearing edge. For a head that they're promoting as a fit for oversized drums, they took the easy way that's only half a solution.
 
Sometimes a Remo head goes on perfectly from day one. Other times you need to put some miles on them and then need to retune. The stubborn ones really have to get played in before they respond as expected (and no it should not be that way).

So is it manufacturing consistency or is it the collar design...or both?

Either way I think Remo's films produce the best sound with the exception of Aquarian sounding best on the bass drum (just IMO) .
 
Remo's sound good, but that deep, straight collar is a hassle. I much prefer Aquarian, with the rounded collar. It mates with any bearing edge right away, easier to tune.
 
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