Replace original Ludwig Bow tie lugs?

  • Thread starter javon7065
  • Start date
  • This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links like Ebay, Amazon, and others.
You could buy a 12-24 tap and die set to redo the threads on the swivel nuts and tension rods that have a problem. All parts would remain original.
Thank you for the idea, but that’s perhaps a bit too advanced for me. I’m not a stickler about it remaining original. I just want it to sound good and look good. If I couldn’t get new lugs, then that would be a different story perhaps.
 
You could buy a 12-24 tap and die set to redo the threads on the swivel nuts and tension rods that have a problem. All parts would remain original.
Thank you for the idea, but that’s perhaps a bit too advanced for me. I’m not a stickler about it remaining original. I just want it to sound good and look good. If I couldn’t get new lugs, then that would be a different story perhaps.
 
The Tunebot Gig only registers up to 400 no matter how tight the tension is. When attempting to turn to 400 I actually tune to 395 or so to make sure I'm getting a real number. The more expensive Tunebot Studio will measure over 400.
 
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links like Ebay, Amazon, and others.
I would take one of the offending lugs off the shell and then screw a tension rod in from both sides to see how far is will go. If it will go all the way down to the end of the threads, then you'll know it's not the swivel or tension rod that's causing the problem.

EDIT: Actually, I wouldn't bother taking the lug off first. I'd just see how far the tension rod will go in without the head on it. If it only goes in part way, then I'd remove the other tension rod to see if it's hitting that. And then if there's still an obstruction, I'd take the lug off to see what it is.
 
Last edited:
Forgot to ask in my reply do you have some stories of them screwing up?
Not personally, but I did tour the place in 1976 on a high school field trip. It was a FACTORY with people from the neighborhood working there that didn't give two hoots about drums or drumming.
This statement is unfounded and unfair to the workers. How, after a high school field trip, do you know what a worker is thinking, what their motivation is, or if they are a drummer or not? Implying that all, or most, of the workers didn't care about drumming or what they were producing is purely conjecture and should not be presented as fact.
.... but people also made mistakes, many of which got shipped out anyway.
More drum lore. Sure, there are examples of un-centered badges, but this myth is applied to egregious errors that are largely unfounded. Many mistakes, anomalies and un-explainable drums are the result of post factory modifications. If the OP's drum is found to have the wrong length tension rods, it would be at least equally likely to be a post factory modification versus a factory error.
 
These guys really know their stuff.
One more thing...(columbo)...The protruding threaded mounting tubes on a lug...are called "bosses."
They are thin and can break....so go easy on them.
Most lugs are made of pot metal....weaker than solid steel.
Install the screws by hand with a screwdriver....so you can feel the binding in your hand as you tighten.
Socket is OK...as long as you put the socket in a straight screwdriver type of handle. The "L" of a wratchet gives you way too much leverage.
Good Luck Sir.
Thanks so much for the info and advice regarding the use of the socket. I still think I’ll just keep the lugs on when cleaning the shells.
 
Take off the batter head and see if you can get the snare side head as tight as you want. With the top tension rods out of the way, rod length should be a non factor. If that sorts it out get 1/4” shorter rods for top and bottom
This is a great idea. I will do that and report back.
 
The Tunebot Gig only registers up to 400 no matter how tight the tension is. When attempting to turn to 400 I actually tune to 395 or so to make sure I'm getting a real number. The more expensive Tunebot Studio will measure over 400.
I have the studio model.
 
This statement is unfounded and unfair to the workers. How, after a high school field trip, do you know what a worker is thinking, what their motivation is, or if they are a drummer or not? Implying that all, or most, of the workers didn't care about drumming or what they were producing is purely conjecture and should not be presented as fact.

More drum lore. Sure, there are examples of un-centered badges, but this myth is applied to egregious errors that are largely unfounded. Many mistakes, anomalies and un-explainable drums are the result of post factory modifications. If the OP's drum is found to have the wrong length tension rods, it would be at least equally likely to be a post factory modification versus a factory error.
In this case, if the tension rods are found to be too long, I can 100% ensure you that it is a factory error as I am the original owner of the drum and have never made any modifications except changing batter heads up until this recent overhauling that I’ve been doing.
 
This statement is unfounded and unfair to the workers. How, after a high school field trip, do you know what a worker is thinking, what their motivation is, or if they are a drummer or not? Implying that all, or most, of the workers didn't care about drumming or what they were producing is purely conjecture and should not be presented as fact.

More drum lore. Sure, there are examples of un-centered badges, but this myth is applied to egregious errors that are largely unfounded. Many mistakes, anomalies and un-explainable drums are the result of post factory modifications. If the OP's drum is found to have the wrong length tension rods, it would be at least equally likely to be a post factory modification versus a factory error.
Yes, I suppose this is conjecture on my part. I'm not able to read minds after all, but I was in the place, I did see the people working there, and I did garner impressions from that experience. Of the 200 or so people that were on the factory floor that day I didn't see a single one that appeared to be enjoying himself or excited to be there (well, maybe the guy making shells who made an incredibly lewd comment to a couple of the high-school girls on the tour, or the guy on the drill press who smelled like he'd recently bathed in some cheap booze). Not that I blame them, it was repetitious factory work, pure and simple and that's going to bring anyone down eventually. I don't mean to imply that they were all acting like zombies but I didn't see anyone that was wearing a beaming smile as they went about their tasks. The work force was a wide cross section of age, sex, and ethnicity, with a lot of middle-aged ladies doing assembly work and turning drum sticks (which had a terrible racket that echoed through the whole place). Some of them might have been drummers and/or excited to be making drums, but with that many folks in that many age groups it's doubtful that they were anything near the majority. I was 15 at the time, and crazy mad about my Ludwig drum set. Oh-so excited to be in that exalted place, and yet at the end of it I knew I'd never want to work there in that environment. It was dirty, dark, dingy, and loud.

The office area was a different story altogether. Those folks did appear to be genuinely enthused about their jobs, and rightly so. Bill Ludwig Jr. welcomed us to the place and showed us around the office. I recall there was a huge gong in one room, stacks of catalogs and promotional material in another. Much cleaner, and quieter. Now....if I could have got a job there.....


I suppose this is all my opinion based on what I saw and I didn't mean it to necessarily be taken as "fact". Although, saying none of it could be true at all is just as much conjecture on your part.
 
I suppose this is all my opinion based on what I saw and I didn't mean it to necessarily be taken as "fact". Although, saying none of it could be true at all is just as much conjecture on your part.
K.O., appreciate the reply up until the final sentence. Nowhere in my original post is it stated (or even implied) that "none of it could be true at all".
 
Last edited:
I took the batter head off last night and attempted to crank the snare side head as high as possible. Since I have never attempted to crank any lug as tight as possible I assume that there would a point where it would just stop, like a screw would? If so, that is not what occurred with any of the tension rods. I was able to continue to turn them. I continued to check with the TuneBot and the highest I could get was a reading of 240hz, which was consistent. I think I may just get a new set of lugs. Not cheap but perhaps the older spring style internals of these lugs just won't work out in this case. There was a reason the spring was abandoned right? or was it a cost cutting measure? I removed one lug to test the "rod too long" theory. Below is a picture with rods in both sides. While they can meet with the lug off I doubt this would happen with the lug on the shell. The amount of thread that is visable at each end is far less than it would be in practice so I believe these are the correct tension rods. They are two inches long, from top to bottom. The lug model appears to be P2240F. Is there a way that I can find out what tension rods are "supposed" to go with this model? I thought new lugs came with them. I guess DFD would know. Thanks for any continued help with this.

IMG_1454.jpg
 
All the springs do is hold the swivel nuts in place when there is no tension on the lugs.. They play no part in the tuning aspect because when you put tension on the nuts they are pulling against the casting itself not the spring.At that point you could remove the springs if you somehow had access.

The only real downside of the springs was they could sometimes rattle against the wall of the lug. They were replaced by little plastic inserts that hold the swivel nut in position...supposedly silently, but more importantly, much more cheaply.

Do you have other snare drums? Are you able to crank tension up on them to the level you're looking for?
 
Have you tried a different snare side head?
This is a brand new Evans 300 snare side head. I was able to use another snare drum to test my theory about cranking it to 400 Hz on the Tunebot and it was successful. So there’s clearly something wrong with the swivel nuts but I’m just gonna go ahead and replace all 10 of the casings. For now, I will stay with the tension rods that I have.
 
I bought the new bowtie lugs. It comes with two different gaskets. What are the pros and cons of adding the gaskets as the original lugs did not have them.
 
I’m generally not a fan of gaskets, especially if the original did not have them. There is a lot of debate over gaskets deadening the tone of the shell and adding unnecessary mass to the overall drum but I just don’t like the look of them. If it were me I’d leave them off.
 
As for using the TuneBot. I find when tuning the reso head on a snare drum it is best to place the drum on carpet to completely mute the batter head. I will also lightly press a finger on the reso head when tapping near the lug. Essentially, that filters out the lower fundamental tones of the head and allows the higher, less dominant pitch to be more easily picked up by the TuneBot. As a point of reference, I tune my snare reso to between 380-400 at the lugs.
 
So I went ahead and got a new set of the small bowtie lugs and have a P88AC on order from Sweetwater. Feeling a bit ignorant here but when I took off one of the lugs it was revealed that what I had thought was a lacquer/stain finish since 1989 is actually a wrap, as shown in the picture. Learn something new everyday. A bit disappointed in that for some reason but I am hoping with the new hardware I can get this sounding good again.
 

Attachments

  • Classic Maple Snare wrap seam.jpg
    Classic Maple Snare wrap seam.jpg
    44.4 KB · Views: 24
Back
Top