Slingerland cloud badge kit

[Tama CW]

Picked up this black/gold duco kit this past Saturday. Pretty original overall.

9x13, 14x26, 7x14 Hollywood Ace Radio King snare. Tacked bottom head on tom in good shape. Single tension bass drum. Top 2 panels have some paint loss....other 8 panels are pretty clean. Gold sparkle inlays.
Both tom and BD appear 100% original down to the RK heads. Snare is well preserved but has Remo replacement heads from the 1970's/1980's.

Came with basic hardware. Slingerland: Epic pedal, and snare stand. Have no idea who made the light hi hat stand. But, I've seen that style in other Slingerland trap cases of this era. The 11" XE Ajaha hi hat cymbals (310/320 gm). They sound as good as any early tiny A's I've had and can compete with KCons....some dragon's breath and tinny-ness in them. The bass drum mounted cymbal is 11-5/8" with no maker's name and heavier at around 400 gm . But it looks and sounds mostly Zillco and/or Italian.

These will keep me busy for a week before I get to play them as a kit. The snare's 80's Remo drum heads were too tight in the collars on this 14.0" wide drum....so getting some Remo "classic fit" heads that will improve that.

 

[rikkrebs]

Very Nice Kit.

 

[levelpebble]

Super swell. The checking on the bass drum is PERFECT.

 

[Bijan]

Great pick up!

 

[Tama CW]

Super swell. The checking on the bass drum is PERFECT.

The seller's photo's only showed the top of the drum. Thankfully, that's the only area that is heavily checked. I'm probably not even going to take it apart. While the T-rods and claws
would no doubt sparkle up with a soaking, it might take away from the overall matching look. I peaked inside through the vent-hole and the bottom of the drum was clean and dry
with re-rings correctly in place. It has probably never been taken apart in nearly 80 yrs. I did take the small tom top head off to check out the muffler assembly for dating purposes. In doing
so I found that the tone control wasn't fully re-tracting via the knob......you have to push it down. It was muffling the tone of the top head all the time. For now, just leaving fully retracted.
Wouldn't you know I had the exact 9x13 tom 18 months ago and sold it after enjoying it for 3 yrs. It had a perfect working muffler assembly. Guess I'll be keeping my eyes open for a matching
16x16 tom to add to the kit.

The snare and bass drum badges are different. But they "overlap" in time sequence. Makes the dating of kit a bit more difficult....relying on hardware features like knobs, mufflers, etc.
BD badge is 2nd cloud badge (approx '36-'43) and the snare badge is the 2nd parade/juvenile badge that was mostly used on their lower line and marching kits ('36-'47).

 

[Tama CW]

Some photos of the W&A marching snare. Very light maple shell. 12 metal wires. The throw off pulls straight out. Simple design. The old style "war" eagle and the older W&A badges seems to suggest 40's or possibly 50's.
The tension adjust knob is very similar to what Slingerland was using in the mid-1940's. The strap is stenciled SICG or SIEG. The W&A site linked below says the 2nd style square badge was used from the 30's to
early 50's. And the round badge from early 50's into the 60's. So that dates it to the first half of the 1950's. Through the vent hole I see black stenciling of "7020." Probably the model number.

Looking at the lower hoop more closely it does appear meant to be very thin. An inverted snare bed or clearance area is cut into each side of that hoop. But with the modern Remo collar, it sits up too high which chokes
the wires. So for this to work as designed it would need a shorter modern metal collar or a calf skin head with a more sunken or lower collar to allow room for those wires to fit in and float. Interesting design.

http://www.walbergandauge.com/badge_hardware_id.htm

 

[dtk]

I have the clone of your W/A snare. The bottom hoop is normal on mine and mine does not have the metal badge but...inside it says 6799 (no initials) so perhaps September 9, 1967. It sounds great.

Is there a date in yours?

 

[Tama CW]

I have the clone of your W/A snare. The bottom hoop is normal on mine and mine does not have the metal badge but...inside it says 6799 (no initials) so perhaps September 9, 1967. It sounds great.

Is there a date in yours?

Mine has the numbers "7020". Which can't be a 1970 date. And the W&A site linked above says that the square badges on the hoop only were used
into the mid-1950's.

Here's a Reverb link to a George Way 1950's marching snare. Same basic set up. Has identical throw off.

https://reverb.com/item/58297508-19...hfQwODr6y8dRhsk3tDr4ma4n4X4MYG1UaAjXFEALw_wcB

 

[retrosonic]

Very cool set! You should be able to find a matching shell to make a floor tom out of. That Duco combination isnt all that rare. Great find!!!

 

[Tama CW]

Very cool set! You should be able to find a matching shell to make a floor tom out of. That Duco combination isnt all that rare. Great find!!!

Unfortunately, I'll be looking for an original paint drum in good to nice condition and no extra holes with mostly correct parts. That limits the available number of specimens.
One of these sold on Reverb earlier this year. But that's the only for sale "single" that I've seen. The black/gold color scheme is quite a bit harder to find than the blue/silver.
A 12x14 mounted tom could be altered into a floor tom.....but I'd want a 16" FT to offset the other large drums in the kit.

 

[D. B. Cooper]

Unfortunately, I'll be looking for an original paint drum in good to nice condition and no extra holes with mostly correct parts. That limits the available number of specimens.
One of these sold on Reverb earlier this year. But that's the only for sale "single" that I've seen. The black/gold color scheme is quite a bit harder to find than the blue/silver.
A 12x14 mounted tom could be altered into a floor tom.....but I'd want a 16" FT to offset the other large drums in the kit.

I bet a 16" would be very hard to find!

I, for some reason, cannot seem to understand what you're saying about why modern heads don't work on the W&A snare.


That Slingy snare has me drooling! Have you played it yet? Amazingly cool.

How'd you end up acquiring these gorgeous tubs? What's their story?

 

[Tama CW]

I bet a 16" would be very hard to find!

I, for some reason, cannot seem to understand what you're saying about why modern heads don't work on the W&A snare.


That Slingy snare has me drooling! Have you played it yet? Amazingly cool.

How'd you end up acquiring these gorgeous tubs? What's their story?

The W&A marching snare modern heads fit ok on the shell. The issue is that the wires get the life choked out of them by the bottom hoop. There's no "proper" cut out on the bottom hoop.
For one it's only about a 1/4" thick....unlike the 1" top hoop. But there are snare beds carved into them to try and make some room. It doesn't work as you can see. And I don't think another
1" hoop with small cut outs would work either. Because when I was taking the drum apart I noted there was very little room left to spin out the claws further. But, I'll check that again as it would be
the simplest solution. It's possible that bottom hoop split off into a smaller piece....but it looks totally original the way it is now. Doesn't look like it was altered any. I suspect the original bottom head
was calfskin with a low collar that didn't get in the way. And that set up could work with this paper thin reso "hoop." Trying to save a buck?

I've tuned up the RK snare already. A bit fussy to get it where I like it. It's a bit deeper in tune than my 1950 5x14". It's still fresh though and will take me more time to get used to the sound.

The kit popped up on FB Marketplace last weekend. The seller said it was from an estate. They apparently do a lot of hunting down and buying estates, storage lockers, etc. No further information on
owner history was provided......and I asked. The last time the kit looked to be "serviced' was the 1980's based on the age of the snare drum replacement Remo heads. The ripped original RK
bottom head did come with the kit. I was cleaning the wood block and double cow bell mount yesterday and discovered it's a Slingerland piece. Rust was hiding that information before.

Reso hoop sitting on the wires....and the tighter you get that hoop....the more crimped the wires get into the head. Note the full size batter hoop sitting direction above it in the photo.
I'm almost tempted to cut the hoop into 2 pieces. But I sort of like this crudely made hoop.

 

[D. B. Cooper]

The W&A marching snare modern heads fit ok on the shell. The issue is that the wires get the life choked out of them by the bottom hoop. There's no "proper" cut out on the bottom hoop.
For one it's only about a 1/4" thick....unlike the 1" top hoop. But there are snare beds carved into them to try and make some room. It doesn't work as you can see. And I don't think another
1" hoop with small cut outs would work either. Because when I was taking the drum apart I noted there was very little room left to spin out the claws further. But, I'll check that again as it would be
the simplest solution. It's possible that bottom hoop split off into a smaller piece....but it looks totally original the way it is now. Doesn't look like it was altered any. I suspect the original bottom head
was calfskin with a low collar that didn't get in the way. And that set up could work with this paper thin reso "hoop." Trying to save a buck?

I've tuned up the RK snare already. A bit fussy to get it where I like it. It's a bit deeper in tune than my 1950 5x14". It's still fresh though and will take me more time to get used to the sound.

The kit popped up on FB Marketplace last weekend. The seller said it was from an estate. They apparently do a lot of hunting down and buying estates, storage lockers, etc. No further information on
owner history was provided......and I asked. The last time the kit looked to be "serviced' was the 1980's based on the age of the snare drum replacement Remo heads. The ripped original RK
bottom head did come with the kit. I was cleaning the wood block and double cow bell mount yesterday and discovered it's a Slingerland piece. Rust was hiding that information before.

Reso hoop sitting on the wires....and the tighter you get that hoop....the more crimped the wires get into the head. Note the full size batter hoop sitting direction above it in the photo.
I'm almost tempted to cut the hoop into 2 pieces. But I sort of like this crudely made hoop.

View attachment 590078

Oh, wow. Yeah I see now.
That's a tricky one.

Beautiful kit, Brian!
What kind of restorations are you planning to do?

 

[1988fxlr]

I know nothing about drums of that era, so just spitballing here. Are you sure that hoop isnt made to face the other way? With a deep collared head the wires could pass over the hoop to rest on the head

 

[Tama CW]

I know nothing about drums of that era, so just spitballing here. Are you sure that hoop isnt made to face the other way? With a deep collared head the wires could pass over the hoop to rest on the head

Good idea. That might have been the original design for the wires to run on top of the bottom hoop. But I can't get the hoop down low enough to bring the wires where they touch the head.
Again, that modern aluminum collar needs to be about 1/8th deeper for the hoop to work like that. This surely could explain the cut bearing edges in the hoop. And when the original calf head
failed back in the day.....the owner was left with just forcing the hoop on the wires.

Just flipping the hoop to either side results in the same clamping/choking action on the wires. Neither works. So the wires ABOVE the hoop was the next thought. Now that might be an idea worthy
of W&A at that time.

 

[Tama CW]

Oh, wow. Yeah I see now.
That's a tricky one.

Beautiful kit, Brian!
What kind of restorations are you planning to do?

No "restoration" planned at the moment. I'm leaving the bass drum and tom alone for now. I sort of like the idea of an "as found" kit that represents the era. Original heads seated.
I did soak tension rods (rusty) and throw off knob and lever arm because they were very rusty looking. But that's about it. Need to find one original lug for the snare
drum as one of them has a damaged tower. It holds tension on one tower ok.....but not optimally. I could spend hours and hours cleaning every metal part on the drums.........
then their condition might not quite match the condition of the black and gold lacquer. I already have one Radio King kit that is bright and gleaming (yet original). So leaving
this one mostly crusty is a nice divergence.

 

[1988fxlr]

Good idea. That might have been the original design for the wires to run on top of the bottom hoop. But I can't get the hoop down low enough to bring the wires where they touch the head.
Again, that modern aluminum collar needs to be about 1/8th deeper for the hoop to work like that. This surely could explain the cut bearing edges in the hoop. And when the original calf head
failed back in the day.....the owner was left with just forcing the hoop on the wires.

Just flipping the hoop to either side results in the same clamping/choking action on the wires. Neither works. So the wires ABOVE the hoop was the next thought. Now that might be an idea worthy
of W&A at that time.

Try stretching a diplomat snare side on another drum to use on it. I keep the snare side cranked on my old Slingerland and eventually the heads will stretch to the point where the rims bottom out and the old head ends up with a seriously deep collar. Something like that might do it

 

[Tama CW]

Try stretching a diplomat snare side on another drum to use on it. I keep the snare side cranked on my old Slingerland and eventually the heads will stretch to the point where the rims bottom out and the old head ends up with a seriously deep collar. Something like that might do it

I might give that a try. Will need to lower than collar 1/4" though....that's a lot of stretching. I did just notice a brighter color on the shell about 1/4" under half the current reso collar. That might be a sign that the original
collar did indeed sit lower at one time. Don't see that same ring on the batter side.

I measured the tension rod length and there is enough room to fit up to a 1-3/8" hoop on the reso side....the batter hoop is 1-1/16". This thin hoop is very weak and somewhat distorted.
Trying to make it work might never succeed. It was already coming undone when I got it....had to glue the 2 plies back together on one of the carved areas.

 

[1988fxlr]

Its worth a shot. This is the current head on the slingerland. It probably has another 3/16” to go before the hoop bottoms out and it needs replacing.

I’ve never had one split on it just giving it another half turn every couple weeks to keep it tight. Not sure if the rounded edge plays a part, I don’t really crank any of my other drums this way. They end up looking like conga heads when they come off. Unfortunately I don’t have an old one around as I usually cut them into studio rings

 

[Tama CW]

Just added a space holder mid-1970's 3 ply Slingerland, natural finish 16x16 floor tom to the kit.....everything original on it including heads.
In the past 2 months no leads on ANY Slingerland duco floor tom. This 70's tom with a touch of muffling via the tone control....gives it a old time vibe.
Got the RK Snare to where it sounds pretty decent to me.

It's always a fine line for me between thuddy and choked on the RK's. The 13 tom is a tough one to get a good tone as that bottom head is a tad loose and must deaden it somewhat.
Using a rolled up rag between the bass drum pedal and batter head. A lot of snare buzz otherwise. While I don't want to be the one to do it.....the 70's natural floor tom could be re-painted to black/gold duco.